Episode 5: Colleen Stanley

Colleen Stanley  00:00

Awareness was missing. I've got negative self-talk and flipping that needed to be, you know what, I'm going to be as good on video as I am in person, knowing that it's going to be a hybrid situation. So that's the biggest, I don't think the soft skills have changed. It's which ones you're going to focus on to be successful in this new world.

Jack Hubbard  00:19

I've had the privilege of being in and around banking for more than 50 years. Lots of changes during that time. We've gone from Ledger's to laptops, typewriters to technology. One thing, however, remains the same. Banking is a people business. And I'll be talking with those people that make banking great here on Jack Rants With Modern bankers. 

Welcome to Jack Rants With Modern Bankers brought to you by RelPro, and Vertical IQ. Each week I feature top voices in financial services from bankers and consultants, to best selling authors and many more. The goal of this program is simple, to provide insights, success practices and to bring new ideas to the table that you can use to maximize your results. 

My guest today is Colleen Stanley, and I'm really excited to welcome Colleen to the show. Colleen is the author of two amazing and must read books, Emotional Intelligence For Sales and Emotional Intelligence For Sales Leaders. Colleen was named one of the top sales influencers of the 21st century by salesforce.com and her clients run the gambit from the Harvard Business Review and IBM to small and medium sized businesses all over this country. In all shapes and sizes. 

Colleen has trained 1000s of sales professionals, and I'm absolutely thrilled to have her as my guest. It's Colleen Stanley, at Jack Rants With Modern Bakers. Here we go. 

So I always like to start the program with something that a gentleman at Centier Bank in Indiana taught me. I was watching a pipeline meeting of his and he started out not by going around the room and lying to each other. But he said, Tell me something good. And at the end of the meeting, I said, “Why do you do it that way?” So you know, as my kids are growing up and they go through school, they would come home and I would say, “How school?” and they would say “fine.” And that would end the conversation. So now I say to them, tell me something good that happened today. And he said it's just carried over and it really works. Well. You've got so much good stuff going on in your life. Colleen, tell me something good.

Colleen Stanley  02:36

Well, you're right, Jack, I do have a lot of good stuff going on. And you know, I'm kind of one of these people. I had this question posed to me last week. So this is interesting, what brings you joy, and I was stumbling around it. And then I realized the reason I was stumbling, I don't think I look for joy anymore, or what's good, I just kind of frame everything up as it's pretty good. So like today, later on, I will take a hike in our neighborhood and what's good about that as I can get on a trail immediately with fresh air, we live up in the foothills. So I guess I think everything is how you frame it up but I don't want to sound like Pollyanna there because I'm certainly not that type of person. So hopefully, that's what's good, everything.

Jack Hubbard  03:16

It is good. And you are good. And I love watching your videos out there in the Denver area, because I love the most recent one you put on that had to do with being on the fence. And I hadn't planned to talk to you about this, but I love the video of salespeople sales managers could be on the fence. What was the essence of that video that you took?

Colleen Stanley  03:37

Well, you know, it's interesting. I think I pick up. I'm always watching trends and what I'm reading and listening to. And you know, right now I think it's back to nobody's the smartest person in the room. There's lots of, you know, we had supply chain issues. Now we've got, you know, in your expertise, bank failures, you've got quiet quitting now it's quiet showing up and all that. And so I think that's what inspired it. And so part of it is there are times you just simply need to make a decision, even if it's the wrong one because if it's the wrong one, at least you're taking action and you can get a lesson learned. Most of the time, if you're taking action, it's going to be the right action because everybody else is sitting there paralyzed. So I think that's where I'm just that uncertainty. Let's not make a move. Let's not do this and it might be the right strategy but in many cases, this is the time to move because everybody else is paralyzed.

Jack Hubbard  04:29

Yeah, though, that's very true. You've had a phenomenal career, you've been a buyer, you've been in marketing, you've done a number of things. And you are the first person that I have known that kind of took emotional intelligence and put it and dropped it right into the sales and sales leadership approach. What was your inspiration for that?

Colleen Stanley  04:51

Look, let me explain that. So it literally was over a decade ago when a very good friend of mine, Mary Lawson came to me and presented this idea because they've been teaching emotional intelligence in their leadership programs. And Marty was the sales partner in that business relationship and she said, Why aren't you bringing this into your sales, training, sales management? And I have to tell you, Jack, I'd never heard the word emotional intelligence, much less put it in the world, with a sentence “sales” but I immediately got it when I started studying emotional intelligence, because I had done enough sales training where I would see people, you know, apply the skills in a workshop, shake their head, “Yes.” And then they get out in the real world in front of a prospect, maybe a hesitant prospect, tough prospect. And all the skills would go right out the window. So immediately, there was something I'm pretty good at called ideation. I could take this idea, this idea and put them together and it just made complete sense but I was fortunate that they were the ones that brought the idea to me.

Jack Hubbard  05:57

Oh, that's outstanding. And so then you take this idea, and do lots of training, no doubt and then
You get inspiration to write a couple of books. Your first book in 2012, your second one in 2020. Now look back, knowing what you know now, look back on the books that you wrote, what's changed in emotional intelligence for sales and sales leadership?

Vertical IQ  06:05

Made by bankers, for bankers. Vertical IQ is your trusted source for reliable, convenient and focused industry intelligence. Helping your team, save time, boost sales and gain a competitive edge, Learn more at verticaliq.com

 Colleen Stanley  06:40

You know, I would say the soft skills, there is not much change but I do think the difference is which soft skills need to be even more developed in this changing business environment, right. So obviously, with COVID, what changed is a lot of field salespeople really needed to learn how to get very good at virtual selling. 

So if you took a soft skill, you would say, “Well, you have to have self awareness of your belief system.” because I would hear a lot from my field salespeople, I'm just better in person, I'm only good in person. Well, because they had that self talk going on, negative self talk, they really weren't investing the time to learn how to be extraordinary on his video call, they weren't taking time to pick up the books on virtual selling, because the awareness was missing. I've got negative self-talk, and flipping that needs to be you know what, I'm going to be as good on video as I am in person, knowing that it's going to be a hybrid situation. 

So that's the biggest, I don't think the soft skills have changed. It's which ones you're going to focus on to be successful in this new world.

Jack Hubbard  07:44

And you mentioned COVID and the first time I talked to you. It was, I think it was 21 and you mentioned to me timing in life as everything. You write the book in 2020 and then COVID happens. I don't know that you could have picked worse timing. But still, it was a great topic, because as people are challenged selling virtually, and I'd love you to comment on this. They were more challenged, coaching virtually. I think coaching went out the window. I don't know what you saw.

Colleen Stanley  08:22

Well, you know, I believe what happened is with the coaching, the companies that were coaching continue to, because I have shared and this is not to sound arrogant. We were actually very fortunate to do well during COVID. Now, yes, we, you know, created this studio, we got very good at the technology by which to deliver highly interactive workshops, however, I'm going to give credit to the clients because the clients moved with us and many of them, you know, Jack, were kind of like, oh, you know, because I was an in person, 100% in-person, trainer and they were a learning organization. So they said, “You know what, we're gonna give this virtual instructor-led training a chance.” And because they were learning organizations, their coaching didn't stop. So I almost think what you had in place before COVID just got exaggerated. So if you were coaching before COVID, you certainly weren't going to be coaching after that.

Jack Hubbard  09:23

Yeah, for sure. Talk to me about… I have this  belief… and you are far more experienced training than I am and you have huge clients and you have a bigger picture. I have this belief that the bankers that I work with now believe that “Oh, this virtual selling is completely over and we're face to face.” and I think that's great but we're one snowstorm, one crisis, one pandemic away from going right back to it. How much in the salespeople that you work with how much are they still honing that saw that sharpening that saw around virtual selling, versus discounting it and saying, “Okay, we're back to face to face totally.”

Colleen Stanley  10:12

You know, what a lot of my clients have recognized is that they have to listen to the customer. And as hard as it was to hear many customers were okay, “Let's have a video call.” And so it was more the salesperson realizing, you know, I only have to comfort face to face. Now let me do a “however" here. However, what I've coached a lot of my sales teams on, nothing replaces face to face. So get on the plane, get in your car, and go out and see people. So it is really having that mentality, I need to be really good at both mediums of selling. And my tech companies are probably the ones that they frankly have always been virtual selling. They have gotten on the planes and such, but many of those had big, big sales forces inside sales. 

So their world didn't shift as much, except right now, with when people went remote, it was harder to get ahold of them phone numbers, corporate, you know, whatever their mode of prospecting was, is that, you know, it's called in the EQ world. It's called reality testing and the reality is we can keep looking back wishing for the good old days and the reality is, when you're looking back, you can't look forward. And so again, you have to have that self awareness to say, “Okay, this is the new reality, get good at it.” And not just good, get excellent at it.

Jack Hubbard  11:31

Well, here's another reality. Banking has a challenge, Gee, what a surprise. In December of 20 of 1980 the prime rate reached 20 and a half, in 1986 to about 1990 1300, savings and loans went under. We had the real estate crisis, we had 2008, then we had the pandemic. Now we have a different kind of crisis. It's not one where the industry is in trouble by any means. It's a communication crisis. It's a confidence crisis. EQ plays right into this. If you were advising a bank, knowing what we know, now we're kind of in the middle of this, what would you advise them from a cultural perspective, a leadership perspective, and a client facing perspective around EQ and communication?

Colleen Stanley  12:25

Well, with the addressing of confidence, this is where I believe the EQ skill of empathy is going to make a huge difference. So you know, empathy, and it's almost getting to be too much of a cliche, because we'll say it's knowing what somebody else is thinking or feeling, right? Well, it's not enough to know what somebody else is thinking or feeling, you actually have to be able to state their perspective. And so for a customer their perspective might be, and they may not be verbalizing this, and this is where it's the unspoken conversation that you want to address. 

So if I was a customer, I might be looking at my bank and going, you know, I'm reading about all this stuff in the paper, in my safe, what should I do? Interest rates, there's a lot of uncertainty. And so instead of going in and trying to immediately “Hey, you're okay, we're okay. The industry is okay.” State what they're thinking or feeling. “Hey, if I were you, I'd be wondering about this. Because…” you know, if I were you, I'd be sitting here looking at me, are you the right? Are you going to be the next California Bank? 

And so if you can state the elephant in the room, that actually creates confidence, because you're having a real world conversation, versus this kind of transactional, and don't worry about that. I would also say on the conviction, this is an interesting one to teach human beings. If you're not convicted. In the organization, you work for the services, you provide the products, you know, whatever the right word is, no amount of selling skills will change that. It's literally an energy you're giving off, and it's called the mirror neurons. 

So they're called empathy neurons. And so people can sense if you're feeding them BS, you're lacking the conviction that happens with your facial expression. So watch the conviction, and then I'd say over communicate at this point. And nobody wants to over communicate, because maybe some of the conversations aren't pleasant, right? And so that gets back to self awareness. Have the conversation, I think Brene Brown is one that said, “Get used to the eight seconds of being uncomfortable.” So those would be a couple of tips there.

Jack Hubbard  14:31

Yeah, and I think also, people do watch, words matter, and visuals matter and so if I'm the CEO, or if I'm a senior executive at a bank, and I walked down the hall and I've got deer in the headlights look, and I've got the woe is me, look, that's going to translate down to the next level of leader and the next level and eventually it's going to get down to the customer facing people. And that's far from what we want but let's take it the other way. One of the things you talk about is resilience and I think that banks that are in this challenging time, resilience and thriving Meredith Elliott Powell talks about thriving. Talk about resistance resilience in banking, and why that's so important.

Colleen Stanley  15:20

When you take a look at resiliency, it absolutely drives revenues and here's what's hard. A lot of times with the soft skills, they seem so intangible, and they're nice to have, but it's like we have businesses, right, we've got a bottom line to hit. So let's take an example with Amazon, it took nine years before they even turned a profit. That's resiliency, remember, you know, having the belief we're going to be successful, probably going up against a board of directors, that's pushing back. 

And so with resiliency, the reason it drives revenue is you'll play the long game. So like it or not, sometimes in tough economic times, even if you're the most brilliant salesperson, sales cycles get a little longer, new decision makers come in so you might have multiple meetings with somebody who doesn't have resiliency, they start getting worn out and they start giving up, they start playing the victim game. And I I believe my opinion, my observation is the victim game is on the rise. And if you can teach your team how to develop resiliency, victim mentality goes out and victim mentality comes in.

Jack Hubbard  16:29

Interesting. And part of that does go right back to the sales leader. This person is really important in the process, talked about empathy, which I think is a I don't know if it's a learned skill, but it's certainly a competency of sales leadership. What are some of the other competencies that you talk about in the book that can make me a great sales leader?

Colleen Stanley  16:54

Well, the mega skill we always talk about is self awareness because the old adage is that what you're not aware of you cannot change and that what you're not aware of, you're bound to repeat. So if you really aren't aware of how you're landing on other human beings, or you're not aware of what emotions, they might be thinking or feeling, you're going to have a disconnect there. I would say with empathy, I often teach assertiveness with that, because it was interesting, Jack during the pandemic, everybody was leaning in to empathy. And then I clearly saw a trend line after we were coming out of it. And I was actually doing another podcast and the question is coming in, where is there too much empathy? We gotta get some stuff done, right?

And so what people often, especially sales managers, don't recognize is that there's a time for empathy and there's a time for empathy and assertiveness, meaning, you know, what I understand your perspective, however, these are the actions we need to take. So often those two need to marry one another. And I would say delayed gratification. You know, we live in this really hurried world. 

So you know, I always say nothing really great happens in a hurry, you can demonstrate empathy. And, often coaching sessions don't happen, because you and I might have 30 minutes set up. Well, maybe that's all your path but if it's if you're showing up, and you haven't prepared for the conversation, which is delayed gratification, you haven't allowed enough time because your impulse control you didn't calendar block well enough. So delayed gratification is a big skill that we're teaching more and more of because people are defaulting to instant gratification selling behaviors and management behaviors. So those are a few that to think about.

Jack Hubbard  18:40

Another one you talk about and it's great is listening both from a sales and and a sales leadership skill. I always tell people in what I do sales training for bankers that you listen in two ways: You listen to understand or you listen to talk. And when you're on a sales call, and you're just listening for some book that you can find where you can start to pitch a product, you're in trouble. But you talk about the difference between active listening and empathetic listening, and you've sort of started to get at that, but talk more about that.

Colleen Stanley  19:17

So it falls within the framework of the EQ competency of empathy. And so this is where well intended companies believe they're teaching empathy, but they’re mistaking empathy for active listening skills. So Jack, you're a prospect of mine. You're very open. I've been referred in and you start sharing your pain. You know, we're really having trouble prospecting, filling the pipeline, the leads have dried up. And I would say something like, “So it sounds like you're frustrated. That sounds difficult.” Well, I might paraphrase what you said, that's active listening. 

Empathetic listening. And it's often called cognitive empathy, it’s when I can finish the sentence. So “Jack, you know, I understand your frustration, because…” and then I state your worry, current or future. But one of the things I always tell people, you know, empathy is first and foremost a thinking skill. It is not a verbal skill, first and foremost. 

So again, in our current world, we never take the time before an appointment, or maybe after an appointment bill. What was informing Jack? What was really keeping, you know, the old saying up at night? So the fact that we don't take time to think is the reason we don't demonstrate real world empathy in a lot of sales conversations.

Jack Hubbard  20:52

Yeah, and that's one of the other reasons why, and I don't know your philosophy on this, I assume it's similar. To make so many calls during the day, it doesn't give you that opportunity to sit back and think, “Okay, what happened here?”  When I follow up with a client, what can I say empathetically in a message? Or how can I voicemail him or her late in the evening and say, you know, I was thinking about this today, if you make too many calls, you'll never be able to do that, Colleen?

Colleen Stanley  21:24

No, and it was a really bad habit that got started during COVID. So the back to back to back to back. And so I've actually, you know, given my some of my clients a hard time, because they, they can fall into that trap of the back to back and here's what happens, you know, if the conversation is going well, why would you have just scheduled 30 minutes, like, you know, this is the discovery call, you've got the agreement? Well, I'm busy and so at 25, after the hour, here's what your eyes start doing. You're looking down, you're looking down? Well, you've just sent a message to the person like we're done. But the conversation wasn't done. 

And so that's a big one I've seen where people are just rushing through conversations, and I actually saw some sales, pundits say, well, prospects don't want to talk that long but that has not been my experience but see, I'm not showing up to the call, thinking 30 minutes, because I always allow enough time for the conversation.

Jack Hubbard  22:19

Prospects don't want to talk long with people that have nothing to say but if you but if you're a sales professional, and you ask really, really good questions I was on a call a number of years ago in in Michigan, and I always try to teach what I like to call the 97% question, and it sort of goes like, what, if anything happened, we discussed about your personal or business financial situation that you'd like to talk about now? I talk about it 97% because 97% of the time, they can't think of anything. 

So the guy sits across the table, he says, “Well, you know, that's an interesting question. Nobody's ever asked me that question before. And you're here to talk about my one business but you haven't asked me anything about the four other businesses that I’ve got.” And the eyes got really big and of course, there was a little conversation and a follow up call. So all important stuff. 

Part of this whole discussion that we're having, though, has to do with culture and part of the culture is a sales process and you and I are both big on a sales process. What are you seeing around the sales process? And more importantly, because you get really tight with your managers, when you coach them. How are you seeing them interweave the sales process, in the team meetings, and one on ones etc?

Colleen Stanley  23:40

Well, so let's back up a little bit. Because Jack, you’ve been in the business like I have a long time. I am sure you still see organizations with no sales process, defined process. No playbook. And what I'm always curious about at this point in my career, is why aren't we doing what we know we're supposed to do? You know, like, right now we're in the NBA Finals, the Denver Nuggets, you know, are in the finals. Well, you know, we all love watching a great team but that great team has a playbook. 

So I'm just gonna say that. If you don't have a sales process, often, I think it's because it's a lot of work to document. And so who's in charge of that work? And selling steps and stages and such. So if you don't have a defined sales process, look at your own delayed gratification skills, and maybe you're not putting in the work to document it. 

Now, with that said, with the companies I work with that have a defined sales process, they are running like a professional athletic team. So they do the pre brief. So just like an athlete, they're going to either do roleplay or they literally run through the sales call before the sales call. What about this? What if they say this? What if a new decision maker came? Tell me what if they oppose this objection. So what I like about pre-briefs is even better than debriefs. Pre briefs you are testing to see, does the salesman person have the knowledge? And can they recall the knowledge? And can they recall it under pressure? So you, you want to do the pre-briefs that way. 

And then my really good sales managers also do the debrief. And they have templates. And a lot of times we help them design the templates, because maybe you've seen or observed this, you get done with a sales call and the manager looks and he says, “Well, what do you think he did well?” Okay, sorry, I know what I did well, but if I knew what I didn't do, well, I probably would have done it on the call. 

So I like to have very detailed debriefs. Did we ask the question? Well, here's the answer. Were there five other questions we could have asked around that answer. And then they embedded it in their CRM system. So I often see CRM systems should actually be a training tool. So they embed the selling stages, and then with specific questions in the CRM to make sure that each step was completed. That was a long answer.

Jack Hubbard  25:59

No, it's a great answer. And it leads to my next question, which has to do with people. You'll have no sales process without people. I always tell bankers, you never make the loan is never bad until it goes on the books. Bad salesperson is never bad until you hire him. One of the things that you talk about in your book, and I love it,  is this coachability factor. How do you know that someone is coachable before they get on the rope? 

Colleen Stanley  26:31

Well, a couple of things. Number one, I always recommend to companies that they have a hiring guide. And because you will still see this where everybody shows up to the interview. And interviewer number one has their set of questions that they think are important. Interviewer number two, okay. So get rid of that, you know, you got to figure out what are your top attributes, you've got to figure out the hard skills you want but then what often is missing is soft skill interview, viewing coachability as a soft skill. 

So past behaviors, your best indicator of future results. So you design interview questions specific to your industry, and maybe your management style, right? So I'm kind of one that's pretty direct. Now I've learned, I can soften up but you know what, it's probably going to be direct for the rest of my life. Okay, so you want to design questions that way? So an interview question might be, “Tell me about a time when you sought out coaching?” Who paid for the coaching? What initiated the coaching? Tell me about the toughest feedback you've ever received? How did you apply it? What did you learn? What was fair about the feedback? What wasn't fair about it? Because what you'll find with pretty coachable people is that they have high self regard. And so they're pretty clear and admitting their strengths and weaknesses. And because they don't take things personally, they actually embrace coaching. You could also just look at the hard skills, and this is why people look at athletic teams, because often people that are participant in athletics or music or debate, they've received some kind of coaching. So that could be the hard skills betting.

Jack Hubbard  28:04

Fascinating. Another fascinating thing here, that has to do with perhaps coaching and certainly sales, is AI. It's all the rage, everybody's talking about it. What are you seeing in your clients in terms of use of chat GPT, or other AI tools that they've interwoven into their sales process, coaching process, etc.

Colleen Stanley  28:29

You know, I, the biggest one I'm seeing thus far, and I think they're only at the tip of the iceberg is they're using a lot for messaging. So many are if you know how to do the prompt, right on chatGPT or whatever other tool you're using. That's the key and so what many of them will find if they put the right question in, they actually get a pretty good idea of what the current pain points are for that prospect in that industry. 

Now, here's what I believe needs to happen, you still got to know your business. And so that's when you'll rewrite the messaging. It can be a shortcut, you know, for emails or blog posts, etc. But here's what I'm gonna say with AI. And I'm going to this gentleman's name, Po-Shen Loh. I read an article in Wall Street last week and he's a Mathematics professor going all over the country talking I think it was to fifth graders about don't be afraid of AI. Fifth graders and their parents, because he said, What AI can't do is be human but to his two points, what is being human? 

Well, number one creativity. So if you take a look at AI, it's kind of… it’s in the past pretty up to speed. But the people that are going to do well according to Po-Shen Loh and want to give him credit are the people that can see the future, people that can solve problems that you don't know exist, or you know which problems to solve. So I found it fascinating to follow some of his advice and so he's some I'm definitely going to be following because to beat AI to use AI and not get replaced by AI be more human creative problem solving.

Jack Hubbard  30:09

Absolutely. And it's not going away. So we might as well embrace it. Even with all the bad stuff, we'll have to try to figure that out. Yeah. Talked about the future. I look at your two books. They're absolutely phenomenal. What's the next book in your future? If I may be so bold?

Colleen Stanley  30:26

Well, I don't know if there's a next book. However, if there was a next book, it would be around sales community. I do think we've had some unintended consequences with remote working and hybrid. Now I'm not going to get into the argument which one's best? Because I often think that the most important question isn't being asked, which serves your client best? I mean, Jack, how many articles have you read, where the question is, this setup isn't the best for our clients? I don't see enough of it and I know happy employees are critical. 

So the community here because the research is pretty clear from Gallup, if you have a best friend at work, you're happy at work, you're engaged at work, you stay at work. And so unless these companies get very intentional, even if the whole force is remote, I had 130 remote sales reps. So I know you can build community, but they were field reps. So they were out seeing people, right. And then we had to reach regional meetings, big national sales meetings, a big incentive trip. Well, lots of community going on. 

So that would be what the next book is about, because and this is going to sound like a right turn. Do we have time for a right term? Absolutely. So this idea came from a book I read called “What happened to You?” authored by Dr. Bruce Perry, Oprah Winfrey. I read it primarily for my work in nonprofit because  Dr. Bruce Perry works with a lot of people that have had a lot of trauma. 

Well, as I'm reading the book, and this is my ideation. One of the things he noted that people that come out of trauma and do well, number one factor community, they've got supportive, there's a family, there's neighbors, there's community here. And so you know, you look a lot of people are stressing out and burning out a little bit of trauma, maybe? Community. So that might be the next book.

Jack Hubbard  32:19

Yeah, you know, that isolation from COVID. And there was certainly a lot before, but I think it exacerbated it, for sure. Well, we don't know about the future but we do know about the present, you have a tremendous newsletter, a Sales EQ and IQ newsletter, talk about the newsletter and how people can get it.

Colleen Stanley  32:40

So thank you for that. We do a biweekly newsletter, and it's accompanied by a vlog. So if you're not a reader, you can see the video, but just go to our website salesleadershipdevelopment.com Sign up, it's under the insights tab and a sign up and we do our best to make it like a two minute blog, something really geared more towards sales leaders but if you're a sales professional, you're still gonna learn from the blog or the video.

Jack Hubbard  33:09

Well, that's great. And finally, you know, Colleen and her team are just absolute dynamos, and they're fabulous in the field. If somebody wanted to get a hold of you to either have you do a keynote, which I know you do a lot of or training, how would they do that Colleen?

Colleen Stanley  33:25

Probably the easiest way you can call us our numbers right on the website. And that website is salesleadershipdevelopment.com  or look me up on LinkedIn. We're pretty active on LinkedIn to probably 3  or 4 posts a week.

Jack Hubbard  33:38

Indeed you are. Colleen, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Colleen Stanley  33:42

Thank you. This was a fun conversation I knew it would be.

Jack Hubbard  33:46

Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack Rants With Modern Bankers with my great guest Colleen Stanley. This and every program is brought to you by our friends at RelPro and VerticalIQ. Join us next time for more special guests bringing you marketing sales and leadership ideas that provide your bank and credit union with that competitive edge you need to succeed. 

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