Season 2, Episode 24: Corey Wrinn

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Jack Hubbard: Anybody that Martin Wise introduces to me. I wanna at least have a conversation. But when Martin says we're gonna partner with this company. I get really excited. I've had

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Jack Hubbard: several interactions with Corey. Wren met him at the Aba Marketing Conference in Chicago last October. Did a did a exciting webinar with he and Martin last late last year. And now Corey gets to be on this wonderful show. Glad to have you, Corey.

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Corey Wrinn: Well, Jack, I appreciate it. It cannot be happier to be here and talk the fun stuff. Early on a Monday morning.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, it's it's exciting. Here we are already in March.

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Jack Hubbard: and 1st quarters almost over, and I know you continue every day doing good work for your clients in terms of data and research. And that's what we're going to talk about today. And let's start there. Talk about Ravel

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Jack Hubbard: what it is what it does, and how you help your clients.

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Corey Wrinn: Sure. So we're revel banking research. We've been doing prospect customer member research for about 7 years. So we're a do it all market research firm. But we focus only on banks and credit unions. So we're really a research 1st firm. You know, we have backgrounds in research and strategy and consulting. But we are not selling you a software package. We are not selling you a quick solution. What we're selling you

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Corey Wrinn: is essentially insight into what's going on around you. So our biggest research driver is twice a year we go out and we interview about 200 3,000 240,000 households and businesses across the country.

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Corey Wrinn: They tell us where they're banking, what's working, what's not working? What they would really want out of a banking relationship, either at their current institution or somewhere else. But importantly, and what I think we do really well, that a lot of other organizations don't track, or or really other firms, is that we do brand awareness and perception tracking every 6 months. So for the biggest or the smallest institutions in the country

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Corey Wrinn: we have years of data talking about. If people locally know who they are, would they consider banking with them? And what do they know about them? You know. What do they think about them? Everybody has a reputation. Everybody from, you know, some of our favorite sports teams to some of our car brands. Everybody has a reputation that's built over time. Banks and credit unions are no different. So we really provide insight, help people understand what others around them

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Corey Wrinn: are thinking about them, and how they can take advantage of that.

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Jack Hubbard: Interesting. And you do these, these sessions, these this in these many, many interviews twice a year. What's the backbeat of that.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah. So you know, we're in q 1 right now wrapping up. q 1. So this is the time that we deliver that research to our clients. So we deliver our research in q. 1 and Q. 3. And for us we feel like that's the right cadence. You know, 6 months is a really good opportunity for an institution to say, All right, let's let's change our our our marketing for the next few months. Let's let's better improve the way that we talk about a certain product, or

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Corey Wrinn: Hey, we had a name change 2 years ago. How is that looking? We've expanded into a market

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Corey Wrinn: last year. How have we really penetrated that? And there's a lot of research out there tools that we also utilize on, you know, deposit rates and market share. Using really financial information where we come in is supplement that with consumer information, you know, people make decisions, people purchase people build relationships. We need to understand where they are in that process and overlay that with some of the more financial nitty, gritty.

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Jack Hubbard: I'm curious, and I think this will help Cmos that do their own research. You know, when when elections are run. Now you look at all the polling and the polling has been woefully

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Jack Hubbard: misguided over the past number of elections, and I think part of that is, you know how people respond, and what what they might think. The right answer is, or what have you? You do? A lot of research. What? What's what is your methodology? How do you conduct the research? Because it's different, probably in retail and commercial. And what are you finding in terms of people open to talking about their banking relationship?

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, great question. And you know, interestingly, we did some custom research last November right around the time of the election to see what people were thinking about the economy and how how it moved forward, and a lot of those polls that you see talk to a random sample of about 2,000 people nationwide, right? And that's based on location, age, ethnicity income. And that's

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Corey Wrinn: generally okay. If you're looking at trends, you know, if you're looking at how many people are looking for a credit card this year. If you're looking for how many people need, you know a line of credit for a business. I think that's generally okay.

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Corey Wrinn: Where we're different is that you in? You know, the suburbs of Chicago can tell me, how is my bank doing here?

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Corey Wrinn: Specifically in this county, specifically in this town, and we don't have a couple dozen. We probably have a couple 100 responses on both the retail and the commercial side of people who say, Yeah, I know. I know Jack Bank, right? I am understanding what they're trying to build and what they're really trying to promote, and I would consider bank with them in the future. And the key here is that you know banks and credit unions don't give us any information.

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Corey Wrinn: We go out. And we do this research. So we're not giving names emails. We go out and aggregate this data through our own research that we design and we collect, and in that way people have a little bit more trust. Right? You know. If you were to ask me, Corey, what do you think of me and my interviewing style, I would probably be a little bit guarded on how I respond that now. Granted, I think you're very good, but you get my point.

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Corey Wrinn: it. People kind of let loose a little bit more when they know it's a 3rd party like us coming in, and people are honest, you know, if they don't like their bank and they want to move, they'll tell us. And our job is to translate that to the client and to the Bank or Credit Union.

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Jack Hubbard: And and you mentioned custom research as well. And

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Jack Hubbard: when Martin introduced me to Corey, and we had our 1st call, and I was able to see some custom research that he did for a particular client. I was absolutely blown away, so want to talk about that in a little bit. But one of the things that that you get if you work with Ravel is this amazing report with about a hundred metrics

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Jack Hubbard: in commercial and in consumer. So talk about. We can't obviously talk about them all. But talk about some of the key ones that that when you, when you create Aha! Moments when you do your reporting for your clients. What are some of those Aha metrics that that people go? Oh, my gosh!

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, yeah, you know what one of the Aha metrics is really understanding your competitors. So you know, in our research, everyone that we speak to Banks somewhere, you know. Let's use a small business, for example.

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Corey Wrinn: They are banking somewhere, and what they do is tell us where they're banking, what's working, what's not working? And then we are aggregating that information based off of a certain geography, certain location. So in some areas, you know, a big national like Bank of America may be

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Corey Wrinn: probably not as strong as you might think, based off of their customer responses. And the Aha moment comes where you know a Cmo. Or a CEO or a Cfo. Says, well, dig into that a little bit like you know. Why is Bank of America, for example, struggling in our town.

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Corey Wrinn: and we get feedback from their customers to say, no, their hours aren't as great as they used to be. When I call customer service. It takes me 5Â min instead of 1Â min to get an answer the rates aren't as competitive, and the Aha is truly when you are confirming assumptions

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Corey Wrinn: when people hear things, people feel things. But now you have the data in the back to really say, all right. We spoke to a couple 100 of their customers. This is what's going on here.

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Corey Wrinn: which may be different Illinois and different Connecticut and different California. Because you have different people. You have different competitors. You have different economies, but we're really focused on what's going on super locally. And you know, for a lot of people, it's helping understand what they do next, you know, from a Cmo perspective. How do I stand up? You know. Generally consumers don't think about their banking choices that often until something goes wrong

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Corey Wrinn: right until something goes wrong and they need a better rate. They need help on the weekends when they can't get it from the current bank, or if I'm a small business, maybe I'm having Treasury issues. Maybe that line of credit isn't as really attractive as it used to be. How am I, making sure that as a branded bank or credit union, I'm at the top of mind for those people when that thing happens, and that's what we help do we help get them in line so that they're

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Corey Wrinn: working on the right message to the right people, so that when that

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Corey Wrinn: juncture occurs they're really at the top of mind for people, and they're drawing in new business.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah. And and you, you said a really good tone at the beginning, when you even say it this way. But we're a research company and it's really up to the bank to to execute. So I want to talk about that.

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Jack Hubbard: But I but I but you mentioned when when you talk to a CEO or a Cmo. So now I've done my either my custom research or you're gonna come in and talk about the the twice a year research that you do. What's the format there? How how do you present this material.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah. So you know, we're in q 1. Right now, we're meeting with clients. Pretty much every day, and we are presenting either the retail report or the commercial report, or a little bit of combination of both. And it's myself and 2 to 3 members of our team are on something like this, run a teams call or a zoom call, and and we're meeting with

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Corey Wrinn: for some institutions. It's 2 people for others. It's an entire boardroom. And we are saying, This is your 6 month update. Here's what's going on. Here's what's changing. And you know, our role is to take a hundred pages of data and really break it down to an executive summary and break it down to a couple of key points. Here's something that's happening in your neck of the woods. That's a little bit different. We see nationally.

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Corey Wrinn: hey, you have a little bit of opportunity with the Gen. X. Here. This is an overlooked demographic. Or perhaps this income level actually is moving away from certain competitors. How do you take advantage of it? So our job is to really consult you and drive that, but it is going to be up to the bank or credit union to say, All right. I have seen the data from Ravel, but now I need to take charge. Now I need to make that change. Now I need to change my marketing plan. Maybe I have to introduce new products.

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Corey Wrinn: Maybe there's certain areas that we have a branch in that just aren't working and we are not breaking through. It's our choice, as the institution to say, is it time to double down or time to pull out.

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Corey Wrinn: and we're there to advise them? But you know it's ultimately up to that institution to use this research as a decision maker to help push it forward. It's not the be all end all. It's a piece of the puzzle, but it's a piece that they normally don't have

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Corey Wrinn: a lot of banks and credit unions know what they do well, and what they don't do well with their own customers, their own members. What they don't know is where their brand is right. What am I known for? What do I do? Well, what do people around think of us.

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Corey Wrinn: and that's kind of where we come in and help fill the gap.

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Jack Hubbard: And despite the fact that you really don't

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Jack Hubbard: take that to the next level, that's not your role of okay. Let's let's talk about execution.

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Corey Wrinn: Yep.

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Jack Hubbard: You do create a market vulnerability, brand awareness, customer experience. Even in your retail report. You have, awareness and usage of itms, which is.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: What are you hearing about? How banks are? A. And, by the way, this could be for your clients, but it also could be for Banks, who get research from somebody else or do it on their own. What are you hearing about? How some of your clients are successfully taking this information and putting it to use to help the bank and their customers.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah. Let me give you an example. So we have a credit Union client down South who she was. A Cmo at another institution. We knew her. She started at a new institution about 2 years ago, and it turns out they use a lot of their marketing budget through very, very local

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Corey Wrinn: school system. So you know, branches in the schools, sponsoring football games, sponsoring everything that has to do with the school. So what we did was go down

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Corey Wrinn: just in her area and say.

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Corey Wrinn: Do you know this credit union? And their awareness is actually pretty high? Let me ask, why.

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Corey Wrinn: where did you find out about them? You don't bank with them, but you've heard of them. The number one reason was branches. The number 2 reason was word of mouth. The number 3 reason was advertising the number 4. Reason was the school system.

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Corey Wrinn: They were spending a disproportionate amount of money in that school system which they assumed, which they thought was driving it.

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Corey Wrinn: This was perfect for the Cmo. She say, all right, let's let's claw some of that money back.

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Corey Wrinn: and let's put into the things that matter most right. Maybe we do want to open that branch. Maybe we do need to expand our advertising behind. Besides, just radio and TV, which we've always done. And this is like really taking the action. And it's her ability to say they've gone out and done the research. Now, we need to actually make that decision and move forward.

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Jack Hubbard: Interesting.

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Jack Hubbard: you talk about custom. I just love the custom research. What are you? I I guess. A 2 part question.

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Jack Hubbard: what is custom research, and given the the many changes that have happened over the past few years. What are your clients asking for around custom, research.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah. You know, we go out, as I mentioned, twice a year, and we do this research at scale. And then we narrow it down based off our clients geographic footprint. And I think that gets them 80 to 90% of the way there.

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Corey Wrinn: But

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Corey Wrinn: we then take it one more step. So you know what we're focused on. Now, we're just wrapping up some research right now. This is at a national level. But a couple of our clients are asked for it. So we're gonna consolidate and share about it. It's on the retail side about youth and teen accounts.

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Corey Wrinn: So we put a little research together to help understand how many people are just really sticking with that bank they've always been at. I mean, you went through this with your with your children right? Like you probably opened a youth account when they were younger. It turns out in the research

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Corey Wrinn: 93% of parents who opened a check in your savings account for their kids was at their primary bank. Right? So

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Corey Wrinn: is a bank really cultivating that

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Corey Wrinn: more than half of them. It was a specific youth or teen account that had certain benefits.

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Corey Wrinn: Are you offering that to compete?

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Corey Wrinn: And you know the biggest difference that we saw based off of this research was that almost 50% of those kids and teens, once they turned 18, they held onto that primary account for 5 or more years.

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Corey Wrinn: They didn't switch right away. They stuck there right? So this is the ability to use some research and probably confirm assumptions. Probably what people think is going on. But now we have some real research to say teen and youth accounts are taking off.

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Corey Wrinn: Lock them in early, be able to offer benefits that they're not getting from some of those Neobanks, right? You know. Chime and Wealthfront and Varro are pretty compelling from a tech standpoint and from a usability standpoint. But how do you stand up? Right? You know the the banking landscape is going to look wildly different in 10 or 20 years, and does today. It's definitely going to be more digital. It's definitely going to be more.

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Corey Wrinn: you know, mobily based, if if that's possible. But how do you really lock in that business today and not wait till it's too late. So that's really where the clients are telling us. We need to know a little bit more like help guide us, and we're able to go out. And, you know, really use consumers to say, here's the story.

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Jack Hubbard: That's that's fascinating. And so we sort of tease this a little bit. So i i i wanna come back to it. Here we are in the 1st quarter in March

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Jack Hubbard: you likely delivered your 1st quarter research to most folks. Give us a couple of you can't give away the story. I get that

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Jack Hubbard: couple of things that you're that you found in business commercials and in retail, maybe some trends, or, what what's going on in the 1st quarter. What are you seeing.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, let's let's start on the the commercial side. So you know, we're talking about commercial banking. And in our mind there's really 2 buckets. There's small business, so you know, under 25 million revenue, a hundred or fewer employees, that's kind of the small business model.

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Corey Wrinn: And then there's real commercial. And in our research we are talking to decision makers, people who are Cfos. They are making the financial decisions for that company, whatever that may be. And one of the things that has really evolved over time is that

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Corey Wrinn: commercial still, is that face to face relationship? I know you talk about this a lot right? And it's still the ability to answer questions and solve problems when they come up.

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Corey Wrinn: And small businesses in particular are really looking for a couple key metrics on that relationship. Right?

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Corey Wrinn: They're not necessarily drawn to a certain brand, but they're drawn to bankers

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Corey Wrinn: who can provide that relationship. So you and I have had a couple of good conversations over the past year about this in particular, but only about a 3rd of small businesses have an assigned banker at their primary institution. That's a huge opportunity.

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Corey Wrinn: If your bank or credit union and you're thinking, hey, can we? Can we really upgrade this relationship?

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Corey Wrinn: a 3rd of people have it.

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Corey Wrinn: And 80% of those people are through the roof satisfied with that relationship.

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Corey Wrinn: And and it and it's not, you know, really, starting from Scratch Jack? Right? It's it's the basics. Can I reach my banker by phone?

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Corey Wrinn: Can I trust them? And do I rely on them to answer my banking needs. That person does not need to be, you know, an industry leader. If I'm running a development company, if I'm running a mining company.

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Corey Wrinn: that banker probably doesn't have any expertise in my field. But can they answer questions about me and my business in terms of payroll in terms of how I'm planning for the future in terms of maybe I do need a loan. Are they thinking with me on that same page?

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Corey Wrinn: And that's gonna build a relationship, especially on the commercial side, which is easier said than done right? But you know that ability to really have somebody assigned to you that you know you can call, you can email, you meet face to face

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Corey Wrinn: is your support network at that institution. And that's something that I think a lot of banks. And now that more and more credit unions are stepping into that space, you know it's an investment right time and energy. But the data at least says it pays off. If you can build that.

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Jack Hubbard: What about on the retail side? Anything, anything? Jump out at you.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah.

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Corey Wrinn: credit cards. Credit cards. It actually, for both business and retail have been the top product in demand of the last 2 years consistently. So you know, we did some extra research on this outside of the Semi annual. And about 40% of consumers open a new credit card every 2 years.

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Corey Wrinn: So what are they looking for?

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Corey Wrinn: Rewards?

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Corey Wrinn: Ease of use? They're not, some of them are, but not all of them are looking for additional capital additional credit, but a lot of them are looking for the next best thing. The key here is that about half of them have 2 or more cards where that is their only relationship with that bank opening a credit card is really easy.

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Corey Wrinn: I don't have to move a checking account or a savings account or a mortgage over, I can go online. I can open up a credit card

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Corey Wrinn: that is absolutely somewhere that community banks and credit unions can't compete with some of the bigger players there.

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Corey Wrinn: It doesn't always make sense right? You have to have the right provider. It may not always be a money maker, but

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Corey Wrinn: Most of them are looking for a really good system, and that's going to be your way in right. It's going to be easier to be able to open up a new credit card account with a new consumer that is to just get a new check in your savings account. I mean, that's a lift for a lot of people. But I think it's an opportunity that some institutions write off because they feel like it may not actually be financially viable. And that's fair.

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Corey Wrinn: But even if it's a a break, even situation for a little while, how many of them are converting over? That's something we're researching right now. So let's talk in a few months, and I'll have an update there. But you know, on the product side that has really stuck out in savings accounts. Savings accounts are really driving up, especially for the younger generations. So you know, this feeds back to what we're talking about before with the youth accounts

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Corey Wrinn: right? The number one reason that parents are opening those youth accounts is so. The child at that point understands financial.

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Corey Wrinn: Yep.

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Corey Wrinn: literacy. They're financially dependent. They know how to really manage themselves at an early age, and that has really stuck Gen. Z. In particular, savings accounts are the number 2 in demand account right now, after credit cards much higher than checking higher at this point than retirement. But you know a high yield savings account. It's a draw for a lot of the younger generations who

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Corey Wrinn: maybe are not as comfortable yet in their journey to invest that money, even in something like a money market account. That sounds foreign language to them. So high yield savings that is really liquid is appealing to a lot of those consumers as well.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, they better put their money away, because by the time they hit our age they're.

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Jack Hubbard: you know, for sure you do a lot of writing for the financial brand, which is, which is great. I noticed an article that you did in December of 2024 about the branches. And and there's always this controversy of do we close them? Are we opening them? Are they viable? What are you finding? With the branches, Corey.

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Corey Wrinn: So so that data was remarkably interesting. So what we're seeing and this is consistent with what we do every 6 months is that on average.

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Corey Wrinn: retail consumers are visiting a branch 4 times a year.

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Corey Wrinn: That's it.

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Corey Wrinn: So not an ATM or not an ATM actually going through the drive through and interacting with somebody or coming into the the building itself.

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Corey Wrinn: That hasn't changed. That's been pretty consistent for the past 3 years.

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Corey Wrinn: What we have seen change is the assumption that people are coming in to get problem solved.

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Corey Wrinn: That's not always it.

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Corey Wrinn: The top reasons that people are coming in are to deposit checks or cash at a level that they don't either feel comfortable with at the ATM, or they typically don't do

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Corey Wrinn: it's also to withdraw. You know, there's always things in the branch that you can't do.

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Corey Wrinn: you know, digitally, or or at the ATM.

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Corey Wrinn: Then it's opening new account. Opening new accounts is still something, you know, for a lot of people. You're opening your 1st mortgage account, you know. You want to have a little hand holding. It's probably the biggest purchase of your life, and do you feel a little bit better handing a check over to a human being? Probably right? However, the assumption for a lot of banks and credit unions is that? Well, they're coming in to get help. We're here to be problem solvers. The data doesn't really bear that out.

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Corey Wrinn: When we dug in a little bit deeper, we asked people, what is the very 1st thing they do when they have a problem. This is true on retail and commercial.

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Corey Wrinn: The number one thing they do is send an email. If they don't hear within the next, you know, 12 to 24Â h. Phone call number 3 is come into the branch.

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Corey Wrinn: So you know, for a lot of people, you're working 9 to 5. You might have kids. You might have animals right, taking care of others. It's not as easy in the branch, especially if you are at an institution that doesn't have that branch footprint

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Corey Wrinn: with all that being said, branches also drive brand awareness

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Corey Wrinn: right? So there, there's a little bit of a give and take a lot of that research that you read through, and some that we followed up with is really understand what the future of the branch looks like, and it's more of a a hub. It's it's kind of you know anything from community space to. We have a client up in California

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Corey Wrinn: who is opening branches, and they have a small couple 100 square foot kind of branch, and on the other side of the building is Dunkin donuts.

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Corey Wrinn: and their membership has a little bit of a Duncan reward system as well. So you know, you're having a lot of foot traffic. It's just being able to build the brand while knowing if people only coming in 4 times a year. Perhaps you don't need a 7,000 square foot branch with 25 teller lines. It's just not the way it is anymore, but having a physical branch is still important to about 2 thirds of people. They feel like they need a branch within 15Â min of where they work or live.

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Corey Wrinn: So that's probably not going to change. It's a matter of what that branch looks like, how much it costs and how much you're going to invest into it. That probably is changing.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, interesting. The other thing that's interesting was your take on, Cmos. You work with a lot of Cmos. You've done a lot of research on this. And and your take was that that banks and credit unions that invest in Cmos in their Cmos as part of their growth strategy are outperforming others who don't

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Jack Hubbard: talk about that research and some of the things you're seeing with Cmos moving up in their career toward that executive suite today.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, I I mean, Jack, you have experience here and marketing for a lot of businesses, not just banks. Credit unions is seen as a cost center. Right? You know, they're not necessarily driving in revenue, and I think that is starting to change where marketing departments and Ceos in particular, are starting to wrap their mind around and being able to translate what their roi is.

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Corey Wrinn: You know we have. We have spent X amount of dollars over the past year, and these different channels are driving in clicks, views, visits, but ultimately deposits. You know, really putting numbers to that effort helps support that more and more.

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Corey Wrinn: But the research that you're referring to is really built off. Some of these fdic call reports where the banks who invest a higher proportion of their assets into marketing have outperformed those who haven't simply put.

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Corey Wrinn: So on average.

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Corey Wrinn: a bank or credit union invests point 0 6% of their total assets into the marketing budget, not people the actual budget

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Corey Wrinn: that's pretty consistent. It's been pretty consistent across every size in the past couple of years, which doesn't sound like a lot of money, right? But if you're in a couple of billions of dollars of assets, that means your marketing budget is a couple of millions of dollars right? It gets pretty big pretty quickly.

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Corey Wrinn: How are you effectively using that? Because that's what the board. That's what the executive team is going to ask. I'm giving you a couple 1 million dollars to go market our institution. What are you doing about it? And you know our work with Cmos is to really provide them that impact. Hey? Our brand has grown. Our perception for trust has grown. You know, our our tech reputation is kind of average, and perhaps that's something that another department is looking at. Right? You know we are ready for a refresh. We are ready for a new mobile app.

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Corey Wrinn: and

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Corey Wrinn: it's being able to use some of that feedback in a way that you know creates cohesion across the institution right? Everybody knows what we're doing. Well, we're not doing well, and where we need to go after that. And strangely, the marketing department now is, is becoming more and more of a driver of that

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Corey Wrinn: perhaps because they have more access to research, you know, through us, but but also elsewhere, that they haven't had before. And it's really driving home the idea of marketing, being able to drive new business. Not just.

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Corey Wrinn: you know, brand awareness. We're driving people into the bank itself.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah

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Jack Hubbard: I I gotta ask because it it's AI and Chat Gpt are elephants in the room. I'm curious how, if at all, you're you're trying to address that with the customers or other research that you're doing around. How banks are are executing on AI.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, I, I in in our experience, has been kind of like 2 camps integrating AI into what they do every day

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Corey Wrinn: and integrating AI in a way to, you know, reduce headcount or generate ideas. So let's talk about that second group first.st So that's really being able to use AI to write copy for marketing, to help get ideas on new ads, to help understand what you know, publications or institutions around you, that you may want to advertise with what you're you're using to generate ideas. Which has been popular now for the last year and a half or so.

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Corey Wrinn: The other side is those who are integrating AI to really drive forward the business, you know, that's in loan decision making, you know, on the commercial side this is really becoming a more streamlined process. Right? If I'm a small business owner and I need a line of credit today, it's going to be a lot easier with a little bit of help

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Corey Wrinn: with AI that you trust that you've vetted, that, you know, works to really gather some of that paperwork. Go through it, be able to streamline what you're doing.

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Corey Wrinn: The other piece that is important to both sides of the house, for retail and commercial is

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Corey Wrinn: the AI chat and AI as customer service. What we found is that chat is by far now the preferred method to contact your bank

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Corey Wrinn: right? Not the phone, not necessarily an email, if you have a problem.

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Corey Wrinn: phone or email is important. But if I just have a question about my account.

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Corey Wrinn: if you are a bank or credit Union. You don't have a chat feature. You're falling behind. Right? You need a chat feature.

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Corey Wrinn: What we found the sweet spot to be is AI or a chat. Bot answers a couple of questions and routes you to a human.

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Corey Wrinn: We haven't gotten feedback from consumers yet.

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Corey Wrinn: That field they can get all of their problems solved through, you know. A chat bot or an AI feature solely on on.

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Corey Wrinn: you know. Chat it just. It's not there quite yet. I imagine it will be soon. But that's an area of, you know, really an addendum.

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Corey Wrinn: right? You know. How do we use this to to filter the way that we're working as a bank or credit union. How? How do we make sure we're being efficient with our time? But our customers and members are getting that answer that they need and utilizing AI in some of those ways, I think today is starting to work there 2 years from now. It's probably gonna be a bigger part of every single thing we do. And today I think we know when it's a part of what we do

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Corey Wrinn: 2 years from now, we might not know that AI is a part of what we're doing.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, I I think it's it's just like your Cmo con conversation. It's those banks that have decided to invest some money in marketing are, gonna get a return on their investment.

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Jack Hubbard: I I would say that those banks have that have chosen just to try to ignore AI and chat Gpt, because of whatever reason are gonna be left in the dust for sure. Couple more.

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Corey Wrinn: We use it ourselves, Jack, like, you know, on the research end, you know, if I'm looking at some historical data, and I'm trying to gather some articles to cite or to read or get better information. It's a nice. It's a nice starting point.

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Corey Wrinn: right? You know as much as I'd like to portray that. We sit around this beautiful oaken library and talk about research. It's not like that, right? We have a lot of conversations, and we read a lot, and we talk to a lot of people. And AI is part of that as well. It helps generate ideas. It helps push us in the right direction.

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Corey Wrinn: There's still the human element, of course.

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Corey Wrinn: but I think you're spot on. You know, the institutions that are choosing to invest into it today are probably going to see the return on it a little bit sooner than those who are just playing catch up.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, I I was down in at a bank recently community bank, and there were 15 bankers around the table. We were doing a prospecting class, and I said, Talk to me about and I knew the answer because I had President before he was in the room, and I said, talk to me about how you're using chat, gpt and prospecting, and every hand. Well, here's how I do it. Here's how I do it. Here, let me show you. Let me come up to the front of the room and let me.

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Jack Hubbard: That's energizing to me the bank that has decide now now they have, you know they they can't put customer information in, and they know what to do and what not to do but it was energizing to see them be able to actually execute on this. And that's gonna really save them a a ton of time.

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Jack Hubbard: Couple more questions I I mentioned at the very beginning. My introduction to you was through Martin Wise, and the reason he introduced us was because about mid year last year you started a partnership with rel pro. Talk about that partnership, and if I'm a rel pro client, what can I get from Ravel?

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, so we're very excited to really integrate a lot of our commercial small business data into the row pro platform now. So there's a for all the users out there. There's a tab that says local market research. You can click on that. And you'll see all revel data

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Corey Wrinn: and and what really that is focused on is providing the commercial banker at the individual level. More information.

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Corey Wrinn: So row pro is really really good at finding contact information at a target company that you want to work with as a banker. Where we fill in that gap is saying, let's go back to another Bank of America. Example, if I know that this small business down the street is using Bank of America, use the revel data to understand what those pain points are.

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Corey Wrinn: what are other commercial clients of Bank America saying.

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Corey Wrinn: do they have good rates? Do they have good customer service? How is the ability to get approved for loans. How is their ability to build a relationship? So you're getting really competitor insights. So the banker is more available to show up and be informed. You know you can come prepared to talk about some of the shortcomings that they may have with their current bank, and how they're prepared to do something a little bit better how they're prepared to do something a little bit differently.

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Corey Wrinn: So it's it's really helpful in prospecting. I think it's an important part of that process to get really an inside view of what's not working with them without even having to talk to that prospect

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Corey Wrinn: that gets the conversation moving in the right direction.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, that's very, very exciting. Well, here, here we are, March. I know you are out and about starting in April, maybe getting into the fall. Where can people see you either speak or maybe display at a conference? What? Where? Where are you? Gonna be.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, March be down in Virginia for Virginia Bankers Association. So I know we're speaking a little early, so I don't know when this will go up, but be down there and then 2 of our really best conversations of the year, or the Aba Bank Marketing Conference. That year. That will be in fall, but also the Mac Show, the Marketing Association Credit Unions, which, if you're listening this, you're at a credit Union. It's a great event you should absolutely attend.

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Corey Wrinn: And then myself and my team are gonna be at a couple of you know, State Association events. I'm up here in the northeast, but we're really spread out about the country. But you know, we're pretty active on Linkedin. Financial brand is gonna continue publishing some of our monthly insights as well. But you know the key is, if you have a question like we're happy to talk. You know, Jack, you and I talk all the time, and and you know about everything. So it's we're happy to talk to anybody, and

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Corey Wrinn: we probably already have data on your institution. You know not to be. No, it's not scary. It's just. You know. We have feedback from either your customers or your members, or, you know, prospects in your area so happy to talk to you. But you know we're continuing to really push that envelope and ask new research and and try to really support

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Corey Wrinn: banks and credit unions to make smarter decisions.

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Corey Wrinn: You know you're you probably go through this as well. You'd be surprised how many decisions are made quickly, and how many decisions are made with a small group? So what we're trying to do is open up that conversation at a different perspective from at least the consumer side or the customer side, but also kind of the expertise 3rd party side. So we're always happy to talk

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Corey Wrinn: and you'll probably see us out and about.

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Jack Hubbard: That's great and email Corey, in case somebody wants to get a hold of you personally.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah. CWRI, [email protected] and you know, again, we're we're all over Linkedin revel banking research. We'll we'll have new information. We'll have new things to share. As soon as this goes up. You you'll be sure to see this hopefully. That's how you found us in the 1st place. Jack, I know you're you're kind of the Linkedin expert these days. So is that something you're still planning on doing for the rest of this year, really utilizing Linkedin and making sure people are seeing your information.

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Jack Hubbard: No doubt about it. It's it's better and better and better, I think, as more people get on Linkedin, and there's more content out there. It's more challenging. But the latest data I saw was only about 1% of people actually post on Linkedin, which is a lot.

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Jack Hubbard: But yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: but still, if if you're vertical like a banker, and you're trying to get a hold of Cfos or the plastics industry or medical it's it's it's absolutely a great way to to get out there. And I know you post quite a lot, Corey. So and your content is excellent.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, thank you so much for for this. I gotta tell you. The 1st time I looked at one of these reports, and now, knowing more and more about what Corey and his team do. Absolutely amazing stuff. You should really check out Ravel. They do a really fine job, and thanks so much, Corey, for being on with me today.

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Corey Wrinn: Jack, it's my pleasure. Appreciate it so much.

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Jack Hubbard: Okay.

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Corey Wrinn: Cool.

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Jack Hubbard: That was outstanding. That was really fun.

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Corey Wrinn: Good you're you're you're good at this to to really throw up the softball.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, I mean, that's my job. And I, you know, I wanna make sure that the people that I that share their time with us that I give you a chance to talk about yourself. And and I like this kind of format because you can then talk about yourself because forced you to do it.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: You know, versus getting on and and doing 40Â min about revel. So it's it's outstanding stuff. Anything new going on for for 25. I I didn't want to ask you, because we're gonna be in March, and

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Jack Hubbard: what else is going on.

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Corey Wrinn: We we are. We're we're trying to be a little bit smarter about travel. So about 2 years ago we did as a team. We did 28 different events, and and our team is only 8 people. And 2 of those people are researcher only. So they don't really travel.

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Corey Wrinn: which means there's 28 events, for you know, 5 people. So so we're really spread out. And what we found is that a lot of them are just not either. Very well run, or it just has the wrong people. You know, you go to. You know the we'll be using example. The Carolinas Credit Union Show.

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Corey Wrinn: It's like bunch of tellers back end people. Nobody there to buy, nobody there to like learn. They're they're just kind of going to experience it. So you know, Aba, bank marketing, Mac, those are some big ones. But we're trying to push into new areas as well. You know, most of our clients are in New England. So we're kind of at the point where it's like

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Corey Wrinn: we can't really add too many more clients, because then we're like kind of overlapping. And and I don't feel great about that. But you know, moving in Virginia, Maryland. The Carolinas. We have a couple of clients there, but not too many, so we think that's a little bit more fertile ground for us.

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Corey Wrinn: But you know Linkedin is kind of the way. You know. It's it's how like the decision makers are, are there? They're not posting all the time.

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Corey Wrinn: but they're there. They're looking. And you know.

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Corey Wrinn: one of our internal goals is that we have about a thousand followers for revel banking research which can try to get up to like 2,000 this year, which we, which would be a big jump, but you know, be more consistent about posting, but not just posting kind of about us like posting like interesting things. They can't see elsewhere. Pieces of information. They didn't know pieces of information that we didn't necessarily post anywhere else. So we're trying to really focus on that so brand awareness is growing. It's a matter of

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Corey Wrinn: consolidating that to say, Oh, I know, what revel does? I don't. I don't need to be reintroduced. It's kind of one of our goals this year.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, I I'll tell you one of the things that that

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Jack Hubbard: and you asked about Linkedin. I I stay up with it a lot, and one of the things that Linkedin is doing this year is going to reward native video. And so.

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Corey Wrinn: Oh!

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Jack Hubbard: If you could get a client or 2 to.

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Jack Hubbard: you know, if you were to interview them in in a you know a couple of minute interviews.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: And post it. You're gonna get more views. You absolutely will versus writing. Now, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't write.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, thing is.

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Jack Hubbard: Newsletter is so powerful. I'm going to start one and and the challenge is, it's a moving target. They change it all the time. But I think videos is is kind of here to stay. I use a software called Big View, which is fascinating because and I like it because it's a teleprompter. So you type in your message and I'll I'll tend to do it when I review books.

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Jack Hubbard: so I'll type in a message, and it's about a minute and 30 seconds something like that, and then I'll put it right up on my computer. And I can look right at the camera.

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Jack Hubbard: And and I can see the words go through, and then if I mess up I can edit it. And it's powerful.

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Corey Wrinn: I'm right. I'm writing this down. So is that a is that like a physical

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Corey Wrinn: teleprompter that goes up? Or is it a software package that you.

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Jack Hubbard: Software package it it. There's no physical things needed. It's big view. BIGV, u.tv.

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Jack Hubbard: $200 a year. Something like that. Boy, it is. It is slick

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Jack Hubbard: and you know, it's it's something you could probably try for free. And if you liked it. You could. You could do stuff.

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Corey Wrinn: Yes.

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Jack Hubbard: But I think videos are gonna be more important than ever this year.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, that that's that's really great advice. I think that's something that we need to do a little bit more. You know. You probably see this as well.

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Corey Wrinn: we. We get so much traction when there's like pictures of people too.

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Jack Hubbard: Okay.

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Corey Wrinn: You know, like when we go to a show, and it it could just be, you know, not even one of us speaking, but like a handful of us like, you know, at the at the Happy Hour. People love that right because it it builds some like humanity behind it. So we're gonna be a little bit more

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Corey Wrinn: cognizant of that aspect of it.

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Corey Wrinn: you know. Try to be more real.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, for sure. Well, this will be out on March.

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Jack Hubbard: Let me see.

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Jack Hubbard: March second. And the reason I'm doing these all now is we're moving we.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah, I was gonna ask you how the house is coming.

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Jack Hubbard: Oh, God!

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Corey Wrinn: Oh no!

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Jack Hubbard: It's coming along. It's it's slower than we think, you know. But we're we're moving. We have a move date of February 13.th So I've got a I want to get these in the can so that because the rest of February and early March it's going to be a zoo. So but yeah, it's coming along.

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Corey Wrinn: Good! Good! How far away is that from where you are now?

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Jack Hubbard: How about if I if I speed 12Â min.

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Corey Wrinn: Oh, okay. Okay.

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Jack Hubbard: That's not better.

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Corey Wrinn: Okay, is it gonna be one of those where you're just trying to move everything out like one day, or will be kind of.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, we'll get movers, but we want it where our goal is to get a temporary permit. Somewhere around February 7.th If we can get a temporary permit. We can carry lamps and art and stuff over in the car and with the movers. And but we'll see, you know it's you. Look it. It's 1 of these I have more respect now, for, like Hgtv shows

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Jack Hubbard: where they say it's 2 weeks to move in.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, there's the. They're not gonna man. They make it. And our contractor. Yesterday we saw him out there yesterday, and we said, Jeez, you know what they gotta do the floor, and we have. We've measured for the countertops, but they're not done yet, and blah blah today no problem we're in. So I trust him. We'll see.

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Corey Wrinn: We? We went through a similar process about

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Corey Wrinn: end of 2021. My wife was pregnant. We were kind of it was the make or break point like, do we? Do we sell the house? Do we renovate the house? And it was right after Covid. So price prices were through the roof, so we sold the house

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Corey Wrinn: and couldn't find another house. So my wife is a she's an administrator at a private school, so she's a head of school. So we moved to a rental house in New York, close to her school, and we were there. What we thought was going to be 3 to 6 months.

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Corey Wrinn: We were there 18 months

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Corey Wrinn: but we bought a house which needed to be totally gutted, so that took an entire year. So we ended up buying a house in

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Corey Wrinn: March of 22 and moving in Memorial Day of 23 and now it's January 25, and we just finished like another thing here. It's just like everything takes way longer than you anticipate. But you know it does get done right. It eventually gets done.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, you relate to this. I you know we got very lucky with the with the rental here, as I mentioned, the people built it, and then they never lived in it, and so it was clean. It's in a very safe neighborhood, and we like it. But, I I'm getting tired of it. I'm I'm getting ready. I've got my my builder.

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Jack Hubbard: who we've known for a long time follows me on Linkedin, and he said, You know, I know you do podcasts, let's build a podcast. Studio. So I got that a little office upstairs, a ranch. But it's kind of A, you know. I'll have a second floor manager thing, so I'm anxious to get in there and and get get a little bit more settled. But.

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Corey Wrinn: It's it's the anticipation, too. Like, you're excited. Right? You wanna know. Yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: It's like it really drags on. But but the other thing we said yesterday is, it drags on? But we got all our stuff here. So we gotta get started, get packed and.

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Corey Wrinn: Know. I know. Yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: I guess, for a little.

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Corey Wrinn: Get a dumpster, too, because there's probably stuff you don't want to bring with you.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, that's for sure. Goodwill is benefiting, for sure.

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Corey Wrinn: Yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: Well.

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Corey Wrinn: Well, Jack, I I appreciate this. If I don't speak to you. Good luck with the move. I hope everything goes on time. But in the meantime, if you have any questions, you need anything, you don't don't ever hesitate to reach out. I I really appreciate the opportunity.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, I appreciate you, and and we'll get you the market, the the thing so you can do it, whatever marketing you want. Certainly, if there's a bank that you are looking at, and you say, Hey, do you know these people? Or if you need a reference or anything, just reach out. I'm happy to help.

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Corey Wrinn: Thank you. I appreciate Jack.

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Jack Hubbard: Alright, Corey.

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Corey Wrinn: Alright, take care!

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Jack Hubbard: See you.