Season 2, Episode 31: Ron Tite

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Jack Hubbard: So, as I mentioned, I met Ron tight through the through Linkedin, and I've seen a lot of his videos, and they're phenomenal. Ron. Thanks so much for spending some time with us today.

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Ron Tite: Thanks, Jack, thanks, thanks for having me. Thanks for hanging out. This will be fun.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, it will be fun, and I'm looking forward to it, and I want to always start by looking back, taking the way back machine and looking at your career, you're from Canada. You're a podcast host. You're a speaker, you're an author. We're going to talk about your latest book. In a second. You're a comedian. Talk about all those things, how they came together to get you to this point in your career.

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Ron Tite: It really is that it's really this culmination of a variety of different things. I mean, I think the

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Ron Tite: the the comedy thing. What's really interesting about comedy, and where that I think plays most in the stuff I do now is that

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Ron Tite: and we and we don't have to think about this. But so so, Jack, if I say, you know, hey, this is a phone, and I make a joke about the phone. Now, you, as an you know, as a quote, unquote audience member, you might have one view of the phone you have. This is what a phone is. This is what a phone does. This is the role. And that's what you think you got the blinders on. You've got your perspective on what a phone is

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Ron Tite: when I tell you. Yeah. But have you thought about this like this? And I show you the funny side of the phone.

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Ron Tite: When you laugh.

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Ron Tite: you prove that you're able to see the thing I'm talking about from a completely different perspective.

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Ron Tite: You go. Oh, I now see that side of it, and when you do that you prove to yourself that there may be other ways of seeing things, that you only thought there was one way to see it, and so humor is just such a great way. It's, you know, a great comedian is just a great observer, you know, George Carlin said. You know my job as a standup is to remind you of the things you forgot to laugh at the 1st time.

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Ron Tite: So we're observing the world, and we're showing a completely different perspective at it. And so I use that exact same process in every speech I give in. Every book I write, in every Linkedin post is like, here's an issue. Here's something that's going on. I'm going to look at it from a different through a different lens.

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Ron Tite: And hopefully you can join me in that. So the comedy has kind of, you know, showed how I can observe things. It's helped me, certainly, in speaking the performance side of speaking, being able to manage a room all that when you add in my, you know, I was a executive creative director of an international agency. So I've worked with enterprise. I've worked with startups, creative guy. So I kind of take again, a creative view of things.

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Ron Tite: And every you know, advertising creative is, I think, disruptive at heart and kind of

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Ron Tite: and the description on my latest book says, I am warmly contrarian, but I think that is a creative director role, you know. So all those experiences have come together to this platform of like, hey? Maybe I see the world in a different way, and I think I should share those thoughts in a variety of different artistic expressions.

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Jack Hubbard: And I've seen a lot of your videos. And the word that kept coming back to me as I watched him was entertainment. Because you are so entertaining.

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Jack Hubbard: and your message is something I can take back and use, and I absolutely love it. But you also know better than anybody certainly better than me. That comedy is all about timing.

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Jack Hubbard: In 2011 you thought it was the right time to start your own company, church and state, your chief strategy and innovation officer. Let's talk about Church and State, because I think it brings all the things you bring to the table together to help your clients talk about Church and State, and who your clients are, and how you help them.

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Ron Tite: Yeah. So I mean, 1st of all, we're not a spiritual organization. We get that a lot. You know, people like y'all want some listings of churches we're like, we are not a church, we are not a church, we are an agency. The name comes from to clarify those who who may not know, but in marketing, in the marketing world the separation of Church and State was always the separation of advertising and editorial.

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Ron Tite: You can't go to U.S.A. today and say, Hey, you know we'll run an ad. If you write an article for us, they would say, that's the separation of Church and State.

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Ron Tite: And so we thought that you know that those worlds were being unified, that because of social media, because of low cost of production, instantaneous distribution, that the very idea of this separation no longer existed, that that any piece of content

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Ron Tite: could be an ad if it was responsible and authentic enough, and and any and any ad could be a piece of content if it was good enough and entertaining enough. You know that.

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Ron Tite: Look, people used to vote with their wallets, and now they vote with their time.

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Ron Tite: and if we want the share of wallet, we need to 1st win the battle for time. We need to be relevant enough and interesting enough, and and entertaining enough and intriguing enough, you know, and timely enough to win it. And if we're not too bad, there's this thing called the Internet, which is filled with other distractions for my time. And so because of that, I just thought we need brands need a different lens. And they

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Ron Tite: we we need to see through it. See marketing through that lens, and nobody was doing that.

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Ron Tite: Now, what's interesting, because what

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Ron Tite: has happened is this evolution of not only the unification of advertising and content, but we've seen the unification of sales and marketing. We've seen the unification of internal comms with outside Comms, like, we're seeing all these things that used to be kept separate. We're now seeing them being brought together, and I think that's a good thing.

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Ron Tite: And in terms of the agency, our clients, our biggest client is Google. We've worked with Walmart. We've worked with Doordash. We've worked with Johnson and Johnson. We are 20 people in Toronto. We are 55 people in Montreal, and we're one person in British Columbia. But we really kind of span coast to coast and work with large enterprise, organization.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, I love what you said about share of of wallet, because that is a real

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Jack Hubbard: common phrase in any industry.

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Jack Hubbard: But one of the things I know you do, and and a lot of brands do are try to get to people's wallets through their heart, talk about share of heart.

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Jack Hubbard: and how you see brands today trying to cut through all the clutter, to get to people's wallets through their hearts.

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Ron Tite: They? Well, some are faking it.

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Ron Tite: You're you're right. That you know, to the wallet through the heart is certainly a viable path.

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Ron Tite: and once you get the heart, then the you know the conversion is easier. Loyalty is stronger, you know all of those things. So the trick is like, well, what is it like? What is it about the heart that we need to capture? And and brands are kind of circling in a wide variety of different ways. But the halo piece of it is you know, brands

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Ron Tite: kind of stepping out, saying, we're not. 1st of all, we're not evil.

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Ron Tite: you know. That business isn't evil coming out of the pandemic business was being blamed for so much.

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Ron Tite: And so the the brand's response was often like, no, no, no, we're lovely people look and read our purpose statement. Isn't it amazing that we are here to bring people together in harmony? And so they tried to

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Ron Tite: to game the system. They tried to take the shortcut to the heart, which is, what if we just what if we just say the right thing?

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Ron Tite: And consumers? They're way, too savvy?

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Ron Tite: They go. I'm calling Bs on that because I had an experience, and the experience that I received was not that so? So? Brands are trying to gain the system, to get to the heart without

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Ron Tite: without creating actions and behaviors and competitive differences that keep the heart.

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Ron Tite: and that, I think, is the biggest opportunity in marketing, but certainly to gain that initial attention. They're doing everything from compelling storytelling. They're they're using kind of retroactive.

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Ron Tite: you know, kind of nostalgia is being used a lot when times were simpler, and

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Ron Tite: you know that gets at at people's heart. But then, you know, the old

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Ron Tite: procter and gamble use of like 1st moment of truth, second moment of truth. The 1st moment of truth is at shelf. Does it compel you to buy second moment of truth is, yeah. But when I get it home, does it do the thing that promised it was going to do? And in many cases consumers are being let down.

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Jack Hubbard: For sure. And and that really leads to your brand new book the purpose of purpose. And and

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Jack Hubbard: I want to. I want to talk about the book, but I'm I'm curious. I've had a lot of authors on, and they answer this question a lot of different kinds of ways.

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Jack Hubbard: How do you find the time

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Jack Hubbard: to do this? And what's your writing? Approach? Some people do? 15Â min a day. Some people say I get up at 3 in the morning when I get inspired. How do you put a book? How do you make a book come to life?

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Ron Tite: I do it very differently than than other people.

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Ron Tite: I you know I clang some pots around. I burn some men sense, and then I wait for something to drop into my lap. No, so I so I do a ton of speech. So I do between 40 and 50 and 70 speeches a year. So I'm on stage a lot. And so

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Ron Tite: how I do it is I get a little nugget of something that I integrate into a speech like, Oh, I'm doing a banking thing. And so I'm going to do like the rise of credit unions, or you know, whatever.

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Ron Tite: And I spend. So I call that the new 2. So I got the new 2 2Â min. Every speech is a new 2Â min, and that's relevant to that specific organization, and then maybe the 2 becomes a 5,

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Ron Tite: and the 5 maybe becomes a 10,

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Ron Tite: and then I go. Oh, I got a big bucket over here, that's a thing. And then I start to look at. Well, what about just doing a speech on that?

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Ron Tite: And I start to blow out the speech, and then I start to tour the speech, and then the 20 becomes the 40 becomes a 60, and then I have a very specific. You've seen me on Linkedin. I'm very active on Linkedin, and there's a specific reason for that, because there's no open mic night

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Ron Tite: for authors. There's no open mic night for speakers. So I use Linkedin as my open mic night. I force myself. I have a whole process where I read everything on the weekend. I

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Ron Tite: kind of take all this stuff. I consume it. I curate it out to my audience in a timed manner. So all that stuff I then create the slide in the moment. So if I read an article in Hbr, and I create a Linkedin post about it, I write my editorial. I create the Slide. In that moment that slide goes to a bucket.

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Ron Tite: The leadership bucket, the authenticity bucket, whatever it is.

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Ron Tite: And then, when I go to do a speech, I just look at my buckets and go like again. Pick this one, pick them this one. When I get to 3Â h of material

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Ron Tite: on a particular subject, I got a book.

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Ron Tite: And so all the research is done. I've got all my editorial perspective. It's been road tested. I've got some catchy phrases like, I've got it all there and I go. Okay. Now I got a book, and often the title has changed from when I 1st started collecting my thinking, or, you know, like that's all changed. The 1st title of this book was now what and now I just kind of added, adding to the speech

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Ron Tite: it kind of went into a different direction. I'm like, Oh, no, it's not now. What anymore. Now, it's called the purpose of purpose

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Ron Tite: and and then I sit down and I write it, and it takes me 4 months.

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Ron Tite: and I have. I don't know. There's different regional terms for it. We have. We call it a cottage. We have a cottage on a lake north of the city.

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Ron Tite: Some people call it a cab and a camp.

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Ron Tite: and I love to write there

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Ron Tite: and and so last summer the good chunk of last summer was spent writing the purpose of purpose. But so that's how I do it. It's mostly

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Ron Tite: done

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Ron Tite: by the time I sit down I'm really just stitching it all together and making it in book form, opposed to speech or Linkedin form.

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Jack Hubbard: That is fascinating. And what a smart idea! Because you because you're out speaking so much, you've got your next book, probably in process, don't you?

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Ron Tite: Yeah. My next book is called Thinkers Doers Sayers, and I haven't even, you know I promised myself that I won't

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Ron Tite: like. I know that I want that to be the next thing. It's 3 years 4 years away. But I'll start to just

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Ron Tite: 2Â min into the existing speech right? And then, after a year, you've kind of evolved the whole new speech. And then and then you just start kind of blowing that out. Yeah, I love that I

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Ron Tite: you know, both, Linkedin, because I'll get like, Oh, boy, bunch of comments, and that people hated that that's not wrong, so that never sees the light of day, and then the speeches. I just oh, that I can just feel it! I even though it's only 2Â min, I can feel that it resonated with people, and then I just push myself to explore it more and more and more.

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Jack Hubbard: Oh, fascinating! I'll tell you. The other thing that's kind of interesting is you. You are a Canadian, and we're living in very, very unique time.

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Ron Tite: You could say app.

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Jack Hubbard: I'm curious.

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Jack Hubbard: 1st of all, we are pretty nice people, as you well know, in Thank you.

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Jack Hubbard: In the United States of America, for the most part. And so you're out speaking a lot here in the United States and in Canada you have lots of friends. You live in Canada. What's your take on what's going on in the world these days.

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Ron Tite: Well, I think there's a couple things where I think I'll just speak. Personally. I can't certainly speak on behalf of the whole country.

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Ron Tite: Personally, it is is part amusing that that we're having some of the discussions we're having. It's part frustrating. It is part disappointing, you know.

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Ron Tite: that I know that.

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Ron Tite: the the Canadians to take great pride in being great neighbors, and you know, when the La Fires happened, Canadians showed great pride that we sent

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Ron Tite: planes down to help extinguish the fires, you know, in 9 11, when planes landed in Gander, Newfoundland, and Canadians, all Canadians felt a lot of pride. And this is what good neighbors do.

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Ron Tite: And so when

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Ron Tite: leadership comes in with a different agenda, that kind of comments, and I think it's people were saddened by that. I think, though, that well, I'll give you a great example. I had some friends from San Diego that were up from Buffini and company.

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Ron Tite: Derek and Casey came up and I sent them baseball tickets. I said, you're in town. I'm a season ticket holder. I can't go to the game. You 2 guys go.

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Ron Tite: And then I realized that I thought, Oh, no! And I called them. I said, this isn't a text conversation I have to call you on this.

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Ron Tite: I said you you need to know that your anthem might be booed.

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Ron Tite: and I'm calling to apologize on behalf of all Canadians for that.

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Ron Tite: But you need to know that most of these people in the stadium are really they might lose their jobs.

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Ron Tite: and they're really frustrated. And they're powerless

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Ron Tite: in all of this, and they don't know what to do.

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Ron Tite: That's the only thing they can do. That's the only thing they can do is is Boo the anthem, and and they're not booing the anthem. They're not booing you. They're not booing your country. They're they're booing

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Ron Tite: the the moves that have been made.

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Ron Tite: But that's all. That's the only thing they can do. And so it's not something we take great pride in. But

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Ron Tite: I feel for people whose jobs are on the line. So I think it's also slightly optimistic that new leadership in this country we're going to have a new Prime Minister, regardless of who wins, will hopefully have a better connection in with your current administration.

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Ron Tite: And hopefully, we can just get back to being such wonderful neighbors and allies. So I think through it all. There's there's hope there certainly is for me.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah.

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Ron Tite: Well, we can. There's lots of things to boo, and there's lots of things to cheer, and one of them is your brand new book

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Ron Tite: that is the signal they were.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, I

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Jack Hubbard: I'm an old radio guy. I like it to make a lot of transitions. The book is called The Purpose of Purpose, making growth the heart of your business. It comes out on May 6.th So we talked about how you wrote the book. Let's talk about why, what was the inspiration.

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Ron Tite: The inspiration was that I found myself just constantly saying, No, that's not purpose, you know that people would come out with these grand purpose statements, and I'd say, that's not purpose. It's not strategically linked to where you make your money. That's Pr.

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Ron Tite: like those things are expectations now. And I saw that business was starting to get distracted by other things, and and kind of pursuing and talking about the things that they thought was purpose, and they watched their businesses start to start to crumble.

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Ron Tite: and that growth started to slow. And so it was just more out of frustration that I thought, like I really need to say, speak my mind, and that's why the title is so direct. This is the purpose of purpose. It's growth. It's not Pr. It is not warm, Fuzzies. This is your business. It has to be strategically linked to where you make your money.

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Ron Tite: And then, beyond that, I knew that you know that

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Ron Tite: coming out of the pandemic and kind of in weird

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Ron Tite: recessionary times or inflationary times, you know, there's just been a wide variety of

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Ron Tite: over the past 2 years alone. It's been, you know, hyperinflation into, you know, possible recession. There's a whole bunch of things going on.

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Ron Tite: and that what I found in conversations. Is that leaders kind of said like, I want to do the right thing. I really want to do the right thing by my business, by my people.

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Ron Tite: I just don't know what the right thing is.

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Ron Tite: and that what they were doing is they were falling prey

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Ron Tite: chaos that was being presented to them

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Ron Tite: by buying and trying to implement more chaos. They're meeting chaos with chaos, and that's not the way to do it. That chaos needs to be met with simplicity and consistency.

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Ron Tite: And so that's the book I wanted to write, to hope hopefully, to help people

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Ron Tite: with tools that could do that.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, let's say it's a phenomenal read. It's it's really good, and you're very direct, and you're very straightforward. But let me ask you a question as an agency.

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Jack Hubbard: Church and State

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Jack Hubbard: people may come to you and say, Well, I you know I want to do a mission statement, and I remember when Bob St. Meyer and I started St. Meyer and Hubbard people would ask us, What's your mission statement? We were a brand new business, and we said we had a 1 word, mission statement, eat.

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Jack Hubbard: we understood, eat.

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Jack Hubbard: talk about the evolution of the mission statement in the context of the purpose of a business. What are you seeing now? In 2025 around that issue.

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Ron Tite: Well, what I think we're seeing. And this was in my experience when I started to do a lot of frontline employee work, I'd go into organizations, and I'd literally

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Ron Tite: sit down and chat to Deli clerks and and grocery store cashiers.

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Ron Tite: and when we'd start talking about what they could do

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Ron Tite: personally to deliver on the beliefs of the organization, so that it was a consistent customer experience.

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Ron Tite: And when you'd say, like, Do you know your your mission statement, your vision. So one they didn't know the difference between mission and vision. They just they just didn't. That's Mba speak in their minds. Secondly, a lot of them could recite it.

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Ron Tite: but no clue what it meant. And, more importantly, they didn't know the implications to their own personal role. They didn't know how they were supposed to take it, and how that affected the job that they were expected to do on a daily basis.

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Ron Tite: So more and more, I just thought like man. Mission and vision are like those that's Mba. Speak from 30 years ago. And what we do is, we say, like, what is you? What do you fundamentally believe in?

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Ron Tite: And what is your brand belief like? Why, you know, or Simon sinning fans your why like? Why are you in business? But as long as that is strategically linked to where you make your money, which can be summarized by what we call an essential do, which is like, what do you fundamentally believe? What do you do to reinforce that? And how do you do that?

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Ron Tite: And that we think every organization, every brand, can be summarized. And that's way, more instructive and way more inspiring to people

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Ron Tite: to to drive consistent behavior throughout the organization than mission and vision ever would. You know our mission is like, our mission is to be this, and our vision is to become this, and somebody will. Yeah. But

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Ron Tite: what about me? So

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Ron Tite: we believe this. So we do this by doing this from an organizational perspective, you can go got it from an individual level. We can say, Well, here's what I believe I'm a leader in Hr. And I believe that leadership is about mentorship. So I actively mentor my team on a day or on a monthly basis by

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Ron Tite: hosting informal coffee chats with every person once a quarter. So I believe this. So I do this by doing this, I think that's way more effective and way more inspiring for the entire organization. Mission and vision might be more inspiring for the C-suite.

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Jack Hubbard: That's that's a that's a very good catch. That's a really good connection between the 2. I last week

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Jack Hubbard: I had Lindsey Green on Lindsey is the chief innovation officer of a bank called Extreco Banks. They're down in Waco, Texas.

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Jack Hubbard: Yep, and they're not a huge. They're a good sized Organization Community Bank. They're not huge.

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Jack Hubbard: Their CEO

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Jack Hubbard: and their executive team. Take the goals and objectives around 2 people in small groups and say, here's what we're going to try to accomplish. Here's where I'm going with this. You work with huge brands, you know, Google and Walmart. And how do you

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Jack Hubbard: make that happen? You talked about these little coffee chat things? What are some other ways, that large organizations that are that are massive and spread out through several States? How do they make it intimate for the

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Jack Hubbard: the employee, so that the employee gets gets it.

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Ron Tite: Well, I think there's a couple of things. So one is just the the sheer knowledge that we're gonna you know. We don't launch it outside before we launch it inside.

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Ron Tite: And you'd think that's obvious. Not so much in large organizations. Marketing is way ahead, out in front. They're doing stuff that nobody inside the organization even knows they're making grand promises about what's going to be delivered in the experience before people have been even trained internally. So one is that here's what you need to do like you need to just ensure you put as much effort and budget and attention to launching it internally as you do externally, that's rarely the case.

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Ron Tite: Second thing, I love that example of like kind of

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Ron Tite: of keeping it with with starting it out with small teams, you know.

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Ron Tite: the original HP way that Tom Peters made famous was management by walking around.

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Ron Tite: That's become management by reply. All

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Ron Tite: that we what we do. Now. What a lot of senior managers do is they do. They don't get out. They actually don't even do zooms. You know that they they just send emails. It's just emails. And it's Powerpoint decks. And maybe once a year there's an there's an offsite or a kickoff.

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Ron Tite: So I think one, as you said, kind of seeding it with smaller teams of people and getting out and actually visiting with them. I also think that

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Ron Tite: get the human beings back involved what we've done like I remember doing.

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Ron Tite: I did a speech to a hundred Ceos, like the top 100 Ceos in in the country, in in the us

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Ron Tite: highly secretive Chatham house rules in effect, session for something called the business roundtable and

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Ron Tite: I talked about CEO authenticity, and I said.

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Ron Tite: stop listening to your Comms people.

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Ron Tite: I mean, not for everything, obviously, but your Comms. People are handing you scripts, and like a robot you're reading them. Of course, those things have been written to be read, not written, to be spoken, and so we need to find some imperfection. We need to find some authenticity back in our communication people will adopt your ideas and your passions all through, how you communicate them.

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Ron Tite: and if you communicate them like a Presidential candidate, reading from the presidential paddles on a teleprompter. I'm not buying it. I'm just not buying it. If it sounds way too perfect. If it sounds like the stock photo version. What I think a CEO is supposed to look and act and sound like I'm not buying it.

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Ron Tite: and that's because Comms people are like. There can be no imperfections in this. It's got to be perfect for the CEO,

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Ron Tite: and it can't be. We need to get back to embracing some imperfections, and how we communicate with people and allow a little bit more authenticity. And when we do that, then the email that we send out can be a little bit more powerful that we can actually be used to build trust in the organization again. But if I just get a Powerpoint deck with an email that's been written by Chatgpt and approved by legal.

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Ron Tite: I'm not buying it.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah. And that leads me to early on in your book you talk about the only thing worse than the great resignation is the great resignation. Talk about the great resignation of resignation. Where are we with all of that today?

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Ron Tite: Yeah, I mean, there's the one you know. The one definition of resignation is which is what we talked about through the great resignation. Was this?

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Ron Tite: I don't know. Like a reaction to an unfavorable situation. You know, this sucks I quit. I'm out of here.

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Ron Tite: The other definition of resignation is way worse, though, I think, and that is when someone is merely resigned

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Ron Tite: and they're resigned to having the same conversations. They're resigned to trying the same old things. They're resigned to just letting the world unfold before them, opposed to proactively taking steps to create their own future.

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Ron Tite: And so it's not a you know, it's not a reaction to an unfavorable situation.

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Ron Tite: Worse, it's an acceptance of it.

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Ron Tite: And I just see that more and more and more that people are merely resigned. We tried that 3 years ago. They're never gonna buy it. She's never gonna go for that. I have no power. They're simply resigned. And not only is that lack effectiveness inside organizations, man, that's so depressing like. I don't want anybody to feel that in in that works with me.

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Ron Tite: and I don't think any, CEO should. I think we want people who are engaged who are passionate, who are not afraid to speak out. You know Stephen Shedless, he just did a great book called the Speak Up Culture, like we need that if people are resigned inside our organization, it's the beginning of the end.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, we we call it quit and stay.

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Ron Tite: Yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: And that's pretty much what you're talking about here, and what a horrible way to live your life! I was talking to somebody earlier today. And they said, Jeez, you're 75 years old. Why don't you retire? It's because I love coming here every day. I love coming up the stairs, coming to my office and helping bankers. I haven't had a job in 35 years, but there are people

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Jack Hubbard: who get up every morning and drudge their way to the train and go to Chicago or go to Toronto. And it's just like what a hateful thing I'm curious, too.

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Jack Hubbard: about what you're seeing around coaching because

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Jack Hubbard: one of the things that can help this

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Jack Hubbard: I'm resigned. Situation is if somebody just grabbed you by the lapels and said, You can do this

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Jack Hubbard: in banking

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Jack Hubbard: coaching is virtually nonexistent. We talk about it in terms of deal coaching and operations. Coaching, but sales, coaching, customer experience, coaching not so much. What are you seeing in other industries as you work with them around coaching, and and how much of it's actually being done.

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Ron Tite: Well, increasingly, there's more and more coaching being done. And you're right that I think we spend a lot of time.

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Ron Tite: You know, I just hosted something last week, and it was the 1st Responders Mental Health Conference.

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Ron Tite: So it was 1st respond. So 1st respond. So we're talking fire and police and paramedic and military and healthcare professionals, and there was somebody on the stage from the police association, and they were talking about

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Ron Tite: how how horrible it is from a police officer who has to go in and witness a death, and that within the 1st year of their job they're going to see more death

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Ron Tite: than the rest of us will in our entire lives, and the effect that that has on their mental health.

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Ron Tite: So they were talking about this and about. When do we start having those conversations? And the one person said, Well, at what stage of police training do they teach us how to fire a gun

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Ron Tite: very early.

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Ron Tite: It's super early in the process. You learn how to fire a gun. So you do all those things, all these technical coaching, the coaching on. How to fire a gun, you know, in banking is how to close the sale. You know all those things, but the larger holistic things things that aren't as technical. That's where the coaching is most needed.

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Ron Tite: That's where there's the biggest stigma around wanting coaching, and that's where the biggest opportunity, I think, is. So I think we're. We're slowly but surely having those conversations, but it's nowhere near where it should be.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, that's unfortunate

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Jack Hubbard: in your book. One of the things I loved about your book is because it's got a backbeat to. It's got a framework. Think, do say.

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Jack Hubbard: talk about that framework, how you arrived at it, and what it all means.

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Ron Tite: Well, how I arrived at is really interesting. I was going to be a guest on a daytime TV show like a talk show.

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Ron Tite: and the producer, or they had 2 segments back to back, and the producer wanted something about branding and marketing and stuff. And so I was coming at her with all the, you know, like the equivalent of the mission and vision, and like these big, sophisticated marketing of operating systems. And and she just said, look at.

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Ron Tite: These are people who are home in the middle of the day watching this show. They are not marketers

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Ron Tite: like Simplified this, and it was nowhere to lie. It was purely out of frustration that I said, just said, Look, it really just all based on what you think, what you do and what you say? That's it.

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Ron Tite: And she said, That's it. Use that.

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Ron Tite: And I sort of like, Oh, okay, maybe there is something simple there.

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Ron Tite: And from a speaking perspective. It was Michael Port and Amy Porte who run heroic public speaking in New Jersey.

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Ron Tite: And I said, I think it's too simple. And they said, No, you need a simple, the framework has to be simple so that you can have more complex inputs to the framework. So it's that chaos with simplicity approach.

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Ron Tite: And so I just started really thinking about that, and then realized that that is the power of great leaders, that great leaders are bound by a set of purpose, a sense of purpose. They're bound and focused by purpose. They believe in something.

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Ron Tite: Secondly.

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Ron Tite: that the leaders what doesn't matter, what they say they believe in that that they will be defined by the actions they take

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Ron Tite: that is going to be the thing that defines their era, their character, their role as a leader. So what type of actions do they need to take to reinforce the thing they believe in?

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Ron Tite: And then, thirdly, is that you know what I spoke about earlier is that our ideas and our passions will be adopted by other people through our communication, and what we should be communicating is by the way. This is what I believe, and this is what I do to reinforce it.

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Ron Tite: And so it really is on a really simple level, based on what you think what you do and what you say, and of course, what you think and what you do is really different for every organization in the banking world

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Ron Tite: that if we go well, what do we believe? You know you've seen the end result? What

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Ron Tite: bank doesn't have a spot that has 2 people that are my age or your, I'm 55. So people are looking at me going this dude. He's gonna start to think about retirement soon. Right.

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Ron Tite: Jack. Little do they know

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Ron Tite: that although I'm 55, I have a five-year-old and a 7 year old, so I'm working till I'm 90, like I'm not retiring, but

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Ron Tite: they look at a dude like me, who's 55. Or they look at someone like you who's 75. And they go. You know what we're going to make this retirement amazing for you. You're going to be surfing, and they show salt and pepper. Haired people like you and I on surfboards, and they say it's comfort, and it's freedom, and it's peace of mind.

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Ron Tite: And so they jump right to the communication, even though their products are like everybody else. You got a saving plan. You got their wealth advisory division. They got their tax. They got all the exact same things as every other bank, and not only that they now have the exact same communications.

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Ron Tite: And so how do we bring it back to like? No, what do we really believe?

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Ron Tite: And

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Ron Tite: you know an example there is on. I mentioned the Credit Unions. I've done some work with some credit unions and credit unions will say, like we believe in supporting the community by taking our profits, and I'll always put my hand up and going. I'm calling Bs.

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Ron Tite: because what yet you do that.

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Ron Tite: But the big banks they actually donate more money to the community than you do

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Ron Tite: because you're significantly smaller. So when you talk about impact, they're driving way more donations into the community. So that's lip service you're actually not delivering on the thing you supposedly believe in.

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Ron Tite: And so when you challenge people on that, it just forms more unique

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Ron Tite: the pursuit of more unique ideas. Within this really simple frame framework.

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Jack Hubbard: It is a simple framework, but execution is the backbeat of it.

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Jack Hubbard: And what you suggest in the book is that there are a lot of companies that never get beyond the think stage. What's what's holding us back from actually executing in in many cases.

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Ron Tite: Because it's tougher.

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Ron Tite: it's tougher, and it's longer. And it's not as the victories aren't as blatantly obvious. So we can go got a new brand belief statement brought in Church and State. They did a 2 day off site. It was incredible. We had muffins at a hotel. They cost $40 each. It was awesome.

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Ron Tite: And now we got the deck.

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Ron Tite: and we can show the deck and we can get, you know. It's like, get that deck, run them. Show them the deck right? And and those. It's just it's easier. And we can check that box. But when we go okay, now we got to roll up the sleeves. And now we got to fundamentally change what we do.

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Ron Tite: And we got to look for tiny victories. And it's not even just saying, We're now gonna do this. We now got to convince the person that does it.

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Ron Tite: and we got to inspire them to change what they do on a daily basis, and maybe their job completely changes like it is just way more difficult. And so we face a little bit of resistance and we give up and we go. Yeah, okay, well, you know what? Yeah, maybe we. Maybe it's really tougher to do.

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Ron Tite: The other challenge is that we get embedded in that

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Ron Tite: we're committed. We go. Yeah, this is, we're all in on purpose that we're gonna we're gonna fundamentally change what we do. And then it's like, you know that like from up the movie where it's like squirrel, we're like, what's what's the next thing? AI? Oh, no! And we start chasing that.

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Ron Tite: And so we start chasing the new shiny object, even though we've never fully implemented the previous shiny object. We went from big data, big data, big data to AI like that.

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Ron Tite: And we notice how we don't talk about big data anymore.

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Ron Tite: It just doesn't come up anymore. And AI, I got to be honest, I was getting calls in the fall about speeches for AI,

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Ron Tite: and we're just not talking about it as much. I just don't get the same requests. But man, fall of 2024. We couldn't shut up about AI.

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Jack Hubbard: Well connect some dots for me, though we've got. We've got AI. We've got technology, and we've got purpose. Connect those dots for me. How do they all integrate and and create symmetry in a business.

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Ron Tite: That's a great question.

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Ron Tite: The what purpose can do is, you know,

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Ron Tite: your your listeners or viewers can't see this. I won't stand up, but I'm I'm

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Ron Tite: 7 foot 8. I know I don't look it from here but 5, 8, but

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Ron Tite: in basketball when you're dribbling down the court you you! If you stop

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Ron Tite: you start with a bowl. Will you have a pivot foot.

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Ron Tite: and your pivot foot is your foot. That's actually the one that's anchored to the floor. And so with your pivot foot, you stay there. But I can explore this direction, this direction, this direction. I can react to the play that's before me, the world around me and I can decide to do different things. But my pivot foot keeps me anchored, so I'm not just running willy-nilly all over the court. Getting called for traveling

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Ron Tite: now in business is the exact same. This is what purpose can do is that when you go.

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Ron Tite: AI, we got to, do, you know? And someone's running around, we got to do AI, we got to do AI, we go. Okay, let's revisit purpose.

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Ron Tite: How can AI help us bring our purpose to life? How can we better

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Ron Tite: effectively deliver on our purpose through AI opposed to just random activities? And so purpose is the pivot foot. It keeps us focused, and it still gives us plenty of options, but it informs the decisions we need to make around the introduction of new technologies or new platforms.

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Ron Tite: And we.

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Ron Tite: you know, as an agency, we had a lot of clients who came to us in the early stages in the rise of AI, and we're like, we want to do our Facebook ads using AI,

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Ron Tite: and we said, what you're just jumping to

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Ron Tite: cheap and mediocrity like. I'm not saying we're not open to exploring it, of course, of course, of course. But let's let's back it up like, how can it make us smarter, so that we get better insights so that we can personalize and customize our brand belief for the individual person like, let's just help it reinforce our purpose opposed to just creating cheaper output.

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Jack Hubbard: Interesting.

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Jack Hubbard: You've got about 65 people, rough numbers, and

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Jack Hubbard: a lot of my audience is bank marketing chief marketing officers. Yeah, from community banks.

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Jack Hubbard: How how much do you view.

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Jack Hubbard: and how much do you see? AI being a threat to your business as well as people in marketing, in community banks over the next. Several years.

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Ron Tite: I see it as a threat.

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Ron Tite: The people who should see this as a threat are the people who don't want to embrace it.

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Ron Tite: and those are the people. I think that it's such an incredible time right now that we can. You know, from a purpose standpoint, we can just focus our activity. We can just get rid of so much stuff that is not fulfilling. That is not value. Add that you know what I would call low calorie activities and

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Ron Tite: and the importance of that. Given that, we can now do all that.

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Ron Tite: the important part now suddenly goes back to old school stuff, we're talking relationship. We're talking creativity. We're talking, having taste and balance and loyalty. Those things are critically important. If I'm a wealth advisor.

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Ron Tite: and I think I can deliver like I can now go in and check a portfolio. We've seen this with robo advisors. Right? We've absolutely seen this. So where does the value come? Well, the value comes from having and forming great strong relationships. It comes with knowing your client on a personal level, and whether you're using AI tools to help you with that.

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Ron Tite: But it's really being able to customize the delivery of your service and your product that is relevant to only them as one human being.

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Ron Tite: And in order to see that whole human being we got to show up as the whole human being. So I think it's a really wonderful time where work will be more fulfilling than ever before if we embrace it now, are there dangers?

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Ron Tite: Yep.

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Ron Tite: Do we need to keep a close watch? Yeah, we do

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Ron Tite: we, Jack? I was before I started the agency. I was executive director at Havas.

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Ron Tite: a global ad agency, and I was the guy that I cranked on so many TV spots. I mean, I don't know how many TV spots I've written and been involved with. There's just a ton.

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Ron Tite: And during those days all the digital people kept coming up to me going.

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Ron Tite: Just you wait. TV guy.

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Ron Tite: just you wait because digital is going to come in and completely redefine, how we connect with consumers, and eventually the consumer is only going to see the ad they want to see for the product they want to buy during a time. They want to buy it on a platform that they want to consume it in.

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Ron Tite: and all the crappy advertising will go away.

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Ron Tite: That was the promise of digital cut to now.

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Ron Tite: what we have is we have people who forgot that digital was all about customization and personalization. And they're using it for scale. You mean, I can send one email to 8 million people with one click and pitch, slap everybody as innocent bystanders done

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Ron Tite: so. The promise we never got there.

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Ron Tite: People just gamed the system and took the shortcut to pitch, slap as many people as they could. That wasn't the power of digital that wasn't what we thought we were signing up for.

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Jack Hubbard: Interesting. Well, things are moving pretty fast. I've just got a couple more questions. Things are moving pretty fast

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Jack Hubbard: and you aren't. I've looked at a lot of your bio. I didn't see Futurist as one of the categories, but I'd love to have you look at the business of purpose.

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Jack Hubbard: 3 to 5 years out. What do you see?

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Ron Tite: I think we're we are going to get back to my. My theme of it is like, I think we're gonna get back to business like we're getting back to business slowly but surely I think that people will be.

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Ron Tite: It'll be this balance of like the responsibility of the business and pursuing a purpose that is strategically linked to where we make our money. But it will be balanced with this internal focus, because we know that Gen. Z. Wants purpose. You know, they prioritize purpose over compensation.

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Ron Tite: And so we know that people want fulfilling aspects to their job.

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Ron Tite: But if you only focus on that, you'll go bankrupt. So I think it will be this continual balance, and and we will just redefine

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Ron Tite: the culture of organizations that is actually rewards the pursuit of profit

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Ron Tite: that will actually bring back a little bit of that eighties, you know. Greed a little bit, but it will be balanced out with this like we can be both like. There's nothing wrong with pursuing profit, and when you do that, and you can create some good in the world. Well, that's a that's a beautiful place to be. We're also going to see the biggest loss of institutional knowledge, I think, over the next 5 years than we've ever seen before

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Ron Tite: that an entire generation of people are going to be walking out the door, taking institutional knowledge with them, and the young people left behind, I think, are going to completely redefine the culture of organizations. And I think purpose is gonna play a big role in that.

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Jack Hubbard: That's that's fascinating. You! You speak.

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Jack Hubbard: you teach, you work with brands. If somebody's interested. How do people get a hold of you, Ron?

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Ron Tite: They scream to the sky. I will hear you. They can go to Rontite tite.com. They can follow me on Linkedin. They can check out the [email protected]. But yeah, Linkedin is probably the easiest way. Just go down there all the time, and by all means reach out with questions or anything else you have.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, you're you're connected to so many people that I'm connected to Jeffrey Klein, who's been on the show. Tamsin Webster, who's been on.

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Ron Tite: Oh, I love tamps. Yeah.

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Jack Hubbard: Bill Ford's been on the show, and you're as good a storyteller as as any of them. Hold the book up so people can see it.

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Ron Tite: Thank you, thank you, and shout out to Tamsin, who, a great line from Tamsin, you know, tell them something they can't unhear. So this is the purpose of purpose. Yeah, available. May 6.th

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Jack Hubbard: May 6.th Go get it. The purpose of purpose making growth the heart of your business. Ron. Tight. Thanks so much for sharing some of your knowledge and your expertise today really appreciate it.

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Ron Tite: Thanks for having me, Jack, and thanks to everybody for listening, I really appreciate it.

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Jack Hubbard: Okay.

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Ron Tite: There we go!

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Jack Hubbard: Ron, I really that was fabulous. That was really great. The book is outstanding. I gotta tell you I'm old school, so I like to have a book in my hand.

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Ron Tite: Me as well.

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Jack Hubbard: But I was, but I was able to glean a lot of stuff, and your questions that you that you did are really fantastic. How often are you on these kinds of shows?

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Ron Tite: I probably 2 a month. Kind of thing.

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Ron Tite: Yeah, it's not something I actively seek out. I know some people have like Pr people that. But just by nature of what I do, I get invites. And yeah, I'm I'm always just happy to help.

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Ron Tite: I know that it's it's a creative pursuit for you, right? Like it's I kind of like. I remember talking to a friend about this, about

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Ron Tite: that who we should all thank like, when I started stand up the very 1st night I did stand up like there were 120 people that I invited to this like I'm going to do. Stand up for the 1st time.

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Ron Tite: and it's pretty easy to go see Chris Rock or Jerry Seinfeld. It's not easy to give up a night to go see somebody do it for the 1st time. I'm not saying you do it for the 1st time, obviously, but that we just need to support people's creative pursuits, because the really, the real special stuff comes from people going. I'm going to do a thing who wants to support me in this

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Ron Tite: and I think we should just where we can support more people in it. So.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, you're right. It's all about relationships. And and people ask me, jeez, why do you keep doing this? And and you know I was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer in 20 in April of 2023, with not a lot of chance to live. I'm cancer free now, and.

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Ron Tite: Incredible.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, it's great, and I'm I'm my purpose is to give back. And these shows are I don't do it because I want speaking engagements. I'll do a couple of year and things like that. But I've trained 80,000 bankers, and and I love the industry, and I want to give back. I want to share with people what other people bring to the table like you. So I appreciate and value that you that you shared your time.

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Ron Tite: I'm going to share this with my brother, who was just diagnosed with prostate cancer.

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Ron Tite: And he's just gone back in for a second. So it it.

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Ron Tite: It looks okay right now. He's only he is turning 60.

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Jack Hubbard: What's that?

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Jack Hubbard: Very young.

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Ron Tite: Yeah, very, very young. And so he's he's in Florida right now. Doing the Canadian thing.

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Ron Tite: But but I just to hear that you're cancer-free, I think will be very inspiring to him.

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Jack Hubbard: Well, if he wants to talk, I'm always happy to do it. I went through

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Jack Hubbard: hormone therapy, took 3 pills, and I became my female side came out, and they said, You know what? Let's try that. And I did proton therapy, which is proton radiation. And it was absolutely fabulous. Oh, nice, and I talked to

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Jack Hubbard: one in 8 men will. I think it's 1 in 8. Men will die of prostate cancer. But a lot of people have prostate cancer. And so I get, I get calls all the time from people. Okay, what'd you go through? What was this like? What would you

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Jack Hubbard: look? Have him reach out. I'm happy to chat with us.

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Ron Tite: Oh, thank you. And have you trained bankers in Canada? Have you trained any Canadian bankers.

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Jack Hubbard: Did a little bmo back in the day long, long time ago, but not there aren't as many banks in Canada.

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Ron Tite: Yeah, there's really. Only I mean, there's a bunch of credit unions. But there's really only 6 banks.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, so no, not not so much. I love Canada we've been to. We took the family to Toronto for vacation one of the cities I'd love to go to in my life is Montreal. I've never been to Montreal.

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Ron Tite: Oh, yeah, it's spectacular. I'm originally from Montreal.

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Jack Hubbard: Oh, it's it's I hear. It's a beautiful city.

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Ron Tite: Yeah, it's great. Quebec City, I would say, is really old school European charm.

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Ron Tite: Right there. But yeah, it's it's and where are you located again? Where.

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Jack Hubbard: Illinois. We're outside of Chicago, just outside of Chicago.

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Ron Tite: Oh, Chicago is Toronto. It's like I.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah, it really is.

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Ron Tite: Little late.

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Jack Hubbard: Toronto's a lot cleaner, but you're right.

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Ron Tite: It is. They're so similar. It's both have second cities.

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Jack Hubbard: Yeah.

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Ron Tite: You know. I love Chicago. Love it, love it, love it.

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Jack Hubbard: It's a great city. Well, thank you again for this. We will. It's it's again. It's the program is going to be on April 23, rd I believe.

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Jack Hubbard: April 23.rd It's a Wednesday at noon, Eastern time. You'll get a notification from. I have a couple of folks that help with marketing with all kinds of links. I also put things out on Linkedin. I'll I'll look at the recording, and I'll do shorts, and I'll put one out Saturday, Sunday, and then Tuesday before the program goes out on Wednesday, and then when the book comes out, I'll be happy to review it and give you another shout out.

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Ron Tite: Oh, that's awesome, Jack. I really appreciate it. I'll send you a copy.

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Jack Hubbard: Great. Thank you so much for your time, Ron. All the best with the new book.

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Ron Tite: Thank you. Chat soon.

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Jack Hubbard: Bye, now.