Episode 73: Chris Nichols

Introduction: I've had the privilege of being in and around banking for more than 50 years. Lots of changes during that time. We've gone from ledgers to laptops, typewriters to technology. One thing, however, remains the same. Banking is a people business. And I'll be talking with those people that make banking great here on, Jack Rants with Modern Bankers.

Welcome to Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. It's brought to you every week by RelPro and Vertical IQ. After six decades in banking, it's time for me to give back. And I hope this program does just that. Every week I feature top voices in financial services, bankers, consultants, best selling authors, and more. And there's a banker here today that you are going to want to listen to. 

Now, the goal here in this program is really simple. It's to provide insights, success practices, and to bring new ideas to the table that you can use to maximize your results in 2024

I've met thousands of bankers over the past 51 years, and Chris Nichols is likely the most thoughtful one I've ever come across. After earning an economics degree from UC Santa Barbara, he started his banking career at Mitsubishi Trust and Bank of America. He founded two non bank firms, and then he had a stint at Pacific Coast Bankers bank shares, too. He joined CenterState bank in 2013 as chief strategy officer, and that's where I got to know him. When CenterState merged with SouthState Bank, Chris got back to his roots and was named director of capital markets at SouthState Bank's correspondent division. 

Chris speaks everywhere, and when he talks, bankers listen. He also serves as an advisor to the annual ABA Marketing Convention and the S and P Global Market Intelligence conference. Want some really great information on AI deposits, treasury management, some pending legislation, and more? Check out this interview with Chris Nichols on Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. Here we go. Chris, what a privilege it is to have you today. I appreciate your time.

Chris Nichols: Jack, the honor's mine. Thanks for having me.

Jack Hubbard: So, before we start with questions, I gotta read you all something, because there is a myth out there that you can't do business on LinkedIn. You can, but you just gotta do it the right way. So, it's January 22 of 2018. I'm reading this guy, Chris Nichols, and all these articles that he writes, and you all got to follow them, for sure. He's got 15,000 of you that do already. So I sent him this message on LinkedIn. Hey, Chris, your articles are always spot on and practical. The most recent one you posted on commercial lenders is the best. I passed it on to several folks and plan to share it with my network. Congratulations on making some very sound recommendations on this key subject. Now, you tell me where it says, I'd like to sell you some sales trading. But here's the great thing. January 23, the next day at 11:04 a.m.. Chris says, if you want to give me a call on Thursday or Friday, as I would love to learn more about your expertise and see if we can't leverage your services for sales training. So that started a relationship with Chris Nichols. I've spoken with him, I've written with him, and I've caught his bankers, and Chris Nichols is the real deal. So I don't gush.

Let me just start and ask you, Chris, about the SouthState bank correspondent division and your role in that organization.

Chris Nichols: Well, thanks, Jack. I appreciate that intro. Thank you. I don't know if I can live up to it, but I will say on LinkedIn, it's a great, fantastic example. I know you teach it all the time, but we followed a bunch of sales gurus, so to speak, for a while. you are one that has risen to the top and just the quality of content. There was no need up until that point that if you were to ever reach out to me or anybody were to reach out to me, I would have given them the hive and just said, hey, we're not in the market. We don't have a pain point right now. It just so happens that in a span of two or three months, we recognize we did have a problem, and we did have budget, we did have the approval to move forward. 

And so I reached out to, I thought what I thought was the best, in the business across the board. Got a small group there and then interviewed each of them. But that was one where you were always at the forefront of my mind because of the quality of content. And when we were ready, I reached out, and I got to say, and I tell everyone this, like, if you ever want to see someone that walks the talk, it's Jack. Like, you've done exactly as you've teached every step of the way, and it's been appreciative every step of the way. And so you continue to impress me on that, which is why we ended up using you and why we still follow you and while we still expound your teaching. So, all good.

In terms of SouthStates correspondent division, you know, we exist, we have a number of specialties within SouthState bank, and one of them happens to be correspondent banking. And we have, you know, some 4000 banks, we talk to 1200 active customers that use one of our services actively in a given month. and we provide some of those services that those banks can or, you know, find more efficient to use. Kind of a third party. So things like settlement, international business, loan hedging is a big one of ours. and the list goes on. Bond, bond business, investment services, alco, et cetera.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah, and we're going to talk about your newsletter too at the end. And you also do a terrific podcast. Caleb Stevens does a great job with that. A lot of tremendous guests. You work with a lot of different sizes of community banks. Well, Chris, you're in the forefront of everything. you know, innovation, you know, AI, you know, the economy, you know, banking. And we're going to talk about all those things.

So recently in your newsletter that I get every week, the banker to banker newsletter, you talked about Microsoft Copilot, and I couldn't not start with AI. Talk about what you're seeing with banks using Microsoft copilot as well as AI in general, what's going on there.

Chris Nichols: So AI is obviously on every banker's mind at some level. And I liken it to, when we first got the Internet, way back when and what that really meant. So it's 1999 and it's already big, but we're all trying to figure it out. That's kind of where we're at now with AI. There is no doubt that AI is going to change the face of the bank. And there's already stories, where it has, and I point out in that article, Klarna, is one that has already saved $40 million and kind of have revolutionized how they interact with customers. As a result, it will be big. One of the easiest ways to get involved is through copilot. 

So if you're a Microsoft bank and you're already used to, using the office suite, outlook, word, etcetera, copilot, fits right in. Seamless $30 a person a month. And, it will boost productivity. We have yet to determine we're just starting down that path, so, too soon? But in some of our tests and some of the other people we've talked to, you know, it's, it's two to five times, a type of productivity boost depending on how often you use it. So I think it's going to be big. I think it's an easy entry point and if not bad, then I think it's, you know, one come upon every bank to experiment. 

But also, you know, if it's not the Microsoft copilot, it's probably something else. But we went ahead and built out Tate, which is our chad GBT model to use internally. we've written about that, that's going real well. So that's one experiment that we had that we've been using since, you know, April. and, you know, building it out and now living with it, and then we'll have others as well. And we have an AI governance group standing up, both handling policy procedures, managing risk, and also looking ahead about what else we need.

Jack Hubbard: Now, I want to talk about, circle back to Tate, but here's what's interesting. I read articles all the time about using copilot chatGPT. There's a new one, perplexity, which I use, and I kind of like, I think lost in all of this. Chris, and maybe you can comment on what you're seeing is how banks are training their people to use this. You know, banks say, well, it's too risky, we just won't do it. Or, yeah, we're going to do it. What are you seeing your clients do around teaching bankers how to use the tool and then to use it in context within their daily responsibilities?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, great, great question. And probably still too early to tell, I would say. You know, in the SouthState we were close. We had a great corporate training group, that helped us just kind of focus on Tate, because training, to your point, is huge in terms of managing the risk, but also getting the productivity out of it. And then also, you know, obviously helping bankers use the product, which is probably our biggest challenge. You know, no one's indifferent to AI. They're either too scared of it to try it or, you know, they love it or, you know, it's just one of those tasks that they think they have to do. They haven't really gotten around to doing it yet. it's on their list. They don't, you know, really realize the importance of that. So everyone has an opinion, and you got to kind of harness that and train across the spectrum. We're starting that now. We've heard other banks are doing the same. I don't know of any bank right now that has a comprehensive, you know, quote unquote AI training, you know, discipline. but I'm sure it's coming. And I know, you know, it's aspirational that I think what I'd love to see us do at SouthState, because I think it's incumbent upon every bank to train their workforce and not just you know, new entries, but also, you know, senior management, you know, from the board on down. Basically everyone needs AI training. I do think everyone also needs a certain level of coding just to understand the new environment, what an AP is API is how an API works. There's certain functions like that that I think are just a new part of the new fabric of banking.

Jack Hubbard: Well, and here's what's so interesting. You use Microsoft Copilot and you developed tape. Now there's ChatGPT and you could, you know, a number of them that are out there.

Chris Nichols: That's right.

Jack Hubbard: Why did you go that route of developing your own internal AI and talk a little bit about adoption and how people are using it?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, and just to be clear, we're not on copilot yet. We're just starting down that journey. So it's we're just researching that and training and we wrote about some of the things that we're thinking about to answer the questions of when and how far and how to get the most out of it. but to answer your question, we were big on, we have a fantastic forward looking group. and they had the foresight to say we wanted to support the initiative. 

So while it's easy for somebody like me to come up with an idea like this is what we should be doing as a strategy and a tactic, they're the ones that actually have to execute it. I was very fortunate to partner with them as well as our compliance and risk group, et cetera, and then figure out how we can best use that. We thought Tate, on top of ChatGPT, the Microsoft version of chatGPT. So it's a walled garden, closed system, it's not public and just to use it internally was the entry point that we should be doing. Adoption. has been strong. 

Right now we have a fantastic intranet where we have all our knowledge based articles. It's still going to take some time like Google to figure out, to do a search, find out which article is appropriate, read through each of them. With Tate. Now you can condense that and save multiple times instead of eleven minutes of search, it's sub 1 minute, to get the answer you need. So it saves a bunch of time. And that time is really important if you're in front of a customer. we'll expand its use over time, as we test and be cognizant of the risks involved. But we thought it was important to go hands on and learn. We may not ultimately further develop tape past where we are. We may want to use a third party, but to gain that knowledge, we thought it was important to go hands on. And every bank has to make their own decision, depending on their resources and capabilities. We're just blessed with an IT department that is a, forward thinking, b, had the capacity and c, had the expertise to handle it.

Jack Hubbard: Yes, and some banks have that capacity. Because of your size and your strength and your innovation, you have the capacity to do it. But some community banks, most community banks don't have that capacity. But then there's alloy Labs, who is helping organizations with a lot of different services around innovation and things that customers are really wanting. You're involved with alloy Labs, and you may have been involved since the beginning. Talk about alloy Labs and some of the things you're seeing come out of there.

Chris Nichols: Yeah, we were one of the founding Banks of alloy Labs. Great organization. And I'm the first to tell you that, you know, I was skeptical to start. Jason and his team over at Ally Labs have done a fantastic job at organizing banks, and we get. One of the huge advantages of alloy labs is we have a number of different initiatives at alloy labs, and I can monitor some and learn from other banks. Well, they can do the same for me, so that I pick and choose, you know, what we're involved with. But it's a fantastic group of forward looking banks, and I do want to just follow the myth. It's not all about size. That just because there's no great size to handle AI, you can handle it. Almost any bank, the expertise that you need has gotten a lot easier to obtain, and the capacity and resources are a lot easier these days, and almost anything. 

The advent of the cloud, et cetera, has just made it so much easier to kick off some of these initiatives. And when you pay, like chatGPT, on a per use basis, it's cost effective for almost any size bank. And it does, you know, you obviously have to have the controls in place, and so you have to be somewhat forward thinking in that respect. But alloy Labs is just perfect that we have banks of all sizes. so, that just proves that myth that no matter what we're looking at currently, projects and identity and banking as a service, the number of different things across the board that are both technology and innovation based, but also risk based as well. And so we try to solve common problems and try to divide up a. That cost in that effort and trying to get ideas. So, you know, one of the ones that I feel passionately about is identity, as it concerns payments. And it's just fantastic to hear different banks perspectives that it gets us to a place where I couldn't be.

Jack Hubbard: So let's talk about some banking related things. The deposits are still king and queen. We need them. What are some success strategies you're seeing banks do to garner core deposits? Steven?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, well some of that fight has already been lost. Hopefully back in 2020 when deposits were cheap. That's when you started working on restructuring the deposit base to be less interest rate sensitive, more performance based. Looking at the duration of some of these deposits' sensitivities, the beta, and the longevity and so it starts there and hopefully it's a lesson for all bankers that maybe have missed it last cycle, but now get to live through it again. The importance of always managing your deposit base and having a strategy overall. If I walk into a bank or see your website and you have a rate first and foremost in your branch or on your website, you're doing it wrong. You're training your customers and more importantly your employees to be rate sensitive. So that's what's not to do. 

What we say in banking, we're all about service. And so this is really the time where the rubber meets the road to prove that. And so hopefully banks are developing products and handling marketing and sales accordingly to really promote non interest rate sensitive deposits. And that means, you know, engaging your customers in a number of ways going after the right customers, and making sure that they're not rate sensitive, but they're actually service sensitive. Like we expounded banking, and going it that way. 

And so marketing is, I think is the minimum that any, every bank can do to always have marketing channels going, multiple campaigns, whether it's health savings account, one of my favorites, treasury management services, which is completely underrated in our industry given the value that brings to many banks. I can go on and on, but there are, you know, probably a dozen ish products that we always should be marketing, always should be growing. And if banks did that, they'd be in a much better spot. And it's never too late to start.

Jack Hubbard: Well, the folks that house the deposits are in the physical locations and there is so much discussion about the branch. Is it going away? Is it stay in? I'd love to know from your perspective, not one of those two, because who knows, we're always going to have branches. What are some responsibilities you're seeing for branch managers and folks in the branches and how have they changed over the years?

Chris Nichols: Yeah. So again, we're lucky here at SouthState that we have a fantastic, retail group, fantastic, branch staff that really understands their role in trying to help that customer, whether it's the individual household or the small business. We work closely, but our branch is really that forward facing store, physical store, as you say, that we think there's always going to be a need for it and it might be less in the future as our online capabilities get more and more. But always, at the end of the day, banking is about people. You want your people in your community. We are very community focused. Every market president, every regional president has the autonomy to manage business as they see fit. 

And it's really proven, particularly in deposit gathering, for example, really proven effective to know where we can, you know, where we can get the rate out of the market, where we can get the volume out of the market, et cetera. And that brand staff is really, you know, ground, .0 to do that and that interaction. One, to gather intelligence about what's happening in any given market, but two also to, you know, kind of promote, our banking services and services that clients need across the board is critical. And so I think the branch changes over time. I think it's a lot about training and helping customers understand some of the digital products and use the digital products, but it's a way that when a customer wants to go face to face, for whatever reason, they can do it. And I just, you know, m, I always hearken it to, you know, the cell service. You know, I, you can do almost anything over the phone or online with Verizon at and t, et cetera. But at the end of the day, if you're really having problems, you want to pull that report, you want that office close by, and that's what I think the branch is in banking.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah. And you hit on a pet peeve of mine. You talked about treasury management services. I was talking to a bank the other day about a $700 million bank. And I said, so, who sells treasury management services in your bank? They said, well, we have a treasury person who's in operations. I said, well, that's not the question I asked. And bottom line is their commercial lenders were selling treasury management services, which means they weren't selling any treasury management services. What's the problem here, Chris? Why aren't more community banks looking at treasury management as a vital part of their level of sales and proactivity?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, some of it is just, I think, legacy issues of where it fits in. But I think banks, as an overarching comment, banks have not done the greatest job at promoting their products across the board. And many banks don't even know what their most profitable products are and what's not. So if any bank stopped and realized the importance and value of treasury management clients, I think that would open up their eyes. And if you saw that profitability, we have a relationship profitability model called loan Command. It's cheap enough, 89 a person for any one banker. 

They can get on it. Model the treasury management services and see that a good treasury management customer is 300, 400, 500% risk adjusted return on equity. And compared to a loan that maybe is 18% on a good day, it opens up your eyes and so as you go after and then you allocate resources in marketing, we tend to market everything all the same, instead of allocating resources, to your point, and sales resources, I might add, and if you stop to understand the profitability of treasury management, you would say, oh no, that needs a dedicated sales force. 

It needs a salesforce that's not tied up in operations. Operational support should be separate and we should have incentives, we should have best practices, we should have training all that around selling treasury management services. It is that important for me, I think it's the way to the future that if you're going to capture that high value corporate or large, small business client, you're going to need treasury management services. So I encourage all banks, including ourselves, to keep building out that product, both in terms of capabilities, technological capabilities, but also, to your point, sales and marketing, acumen.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah.

Chris Nichols: Good.

Jack Hubbard: So I was watching a tv show this morning and it basically said that the average election cycle is a little over five months. We're in a long cycle here. We got eight months to hear these two folks. What kind of a fact do you think the economy is going to see based on what happens here? What's your crystal ball like?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, well, my crystal ball says that even after the election cycle the economy is stronger than I think the market is projecting. I don't think this is one personal opinion. I don't think we're going to see the rate cuts. I've been saying this for a while, that the economy is too strong right now, we can't afford a rate cut and we're in the middle of inflation week. So it's a somewhat interesting week when we get PPI and CPI to see where it comes out. But I think inflation will be harder to get rid of than the economy. Thinks, I think people are still spending, the consumer and businesses are still spending. And you can't really have a recession with the level of low unemployment, or the high employment that we have now. We've seen a couple stronger job prints. 

Even with revisions, they're still strong. I think we'll continue to see that. and as a result, I think that the rate cuts that are expected in the market get pushed out. I think the election cycle exacerbates some of that. We've seen we're still only halfway through and not only halfway through in terms of actual spending, the Biden administration's original infrastructure and jobs act spending. So there's still trillions of dollars to go out there. We have the new infrastructure spending bill now that will affect community bankings across the board. 

That's still going to be inflationary, still going to be stimulative, for the US economy. And we still have money for things like the earned, retention credits, and a number of other tax credits that have still been brought about during the pandemic that haven't actually been put in the system. all that is still similar to, that's part of the reason why I think we'll still see a stronger economy than expected. We'll still see higher inflation and the election cycle will just pander to the masses. right or wrong on the Biden administration, they'll continue to do that and play that up. And I think any new president will probably do the same to look forward to and to keep their party in office. and we'll see what happens.

Jack Hubbard: Be interesting.

well, you talked about strength, and one of the articles that you wrote in your newsletter a while ago was, some industries that you think are really deposit rich. And I always think, well, if you're going to go fishing, which I love to do, you go where the fish are. I'm curious. Now, here we are in 2024. I'm a community banker and I'm in a pretty rich market. I've got all kinds of different industries that I could go after and prospect to, to who are some, that I should be really talking to.

Chris Nichols: Yeah. So if you look at the profitability of your deposit customers, which drive the profitability of your bank, and it is if going after deposits is really a driver of franchise value, we looked at some quantitative evidence in the blog about m, how much more important deposits are to, say loans or fees, or working on your investment portfolio, etcetera. deposits are important, undoubtedly for franchise value and with, as you said, within that, there are certain industries that are more deposit rich. And so you either want two types of customers, those that have a bunch of extra cash sitting around for whatever reason, because that's common in the industry, or two that have heavy payment volume. and so you want a payment platform to go after that volume. Instant payments being the latest trend that everyone has to, I think, have a plan for, to capture that customer. 

But as you go after those customers that are heavy payment focused and have large deposits and, or, either one creates outsized value. And then you look at, okay, who are those? Well, it's the insurance companies. And, you can find it across the board. But insurance companies and professional services have those needs. Nonprofits are a big one. and it goes on and on about those with outsized cash balances or cash needs. and I, we like to bank everyone in a community, and community banks. And if you want to do that, great. I just say maybe while you're banking everyone, you put more resources to those profitable customers and go after them with your more profitable products. Because the secret formula in banking, as you and I've talked about, is selling profitable customers, profitable products. Sounds easy, rarely done in our industry. And if you just skew a little bit, you'll get better, return on equity and the return on assets.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah, we have a finite amount of time. Let's target our energies. Companies like RelPro, who's a sponsor of this program, allows you to look at the industries that you're talking about. And if you want more deposits, health savings accounts, who has them? Rel Pro will be able to tell you that all those things become really important. But I gotta go back to the.

Chris Nichols: Election and real quick on that point. You know, that's interesting. So we use services like them that are great at finding contacts, but also great at looking at who's looking at what. So, you know, there's a lot of signals, that are easily followed up on in a company like real pro that can tell you what people are searching for or what they're looking, you know, for in the marketplace, on Google or Bing or what have you, and then you find the contact and reach out. 

There are certain points that, like these infrastructure bills, for example, you can kind of look ahead and say, okay, who's going to get those contracts? Who's already approved in my community? And it's so critical if you're in the key cities that are being targeted. You know, Portland, Duluth, Vancouver, Washington, Cape Cod. It goes on and on. But you can say, hey, who's going to get these contracts? And then who's going to need, you know, either a loan or a line of credit or cash management services and look that up on one of these services. it's critical. And so we do that for both the deposit side, but also on the loan side for refinancing, you do a UCC search, real pro has some of that information, et cetera, and find out, well, hey, it's at that competitor. It was made at that time. At that rate, we should be contacting them because that bank probably isn't doing a strategic refinance, something that we're very passionate, about as a way to increase margins now, make long term loans and do some refinancing now, managing that credit risk now, as opposed to waiting till we are already in a session two years from now or a year from now, whatever that is, and not having a whole lot of options. So that service is critical and services like that are critical to driving business forward.

Jack Hubbard: Last you talked about loans, I want to talk about loan demand a little bit. But last summer you were kind enough to ask me to come into Chicago as your SouthState bank correspondent. Division was doing a big meeting, and the meeting really was this group of folks who help banks with a program you call arc. So I'd love to have you talk about it a little bit in terms of what it is and also how it might help spur loan demand when there really isn't any in a community.

Chris Nichols: Yeah. AHRQ solves a combination of problems, again, that we believe wholeheartedly, and that's why we have the product. It's not the other way around. But as I mentioned, strategic refinance going after and refinancing your customers now that are coming up for renewal in the next two years, having that conversation now and maybe refinancing ahead of time, giving them credit for the rate and making them, if it's appropriate, if they still are in it for the long haul, that long term fixed rate loan, hedging it back on our balance sheet. 

So the community bank has no derivative on their balance sheet. We handle everything for them, including the accounting and the capital requirements, et cetera. We do all that on our balance sheet and making sure that bank has a floating rate loan, which is what they really want. They get the best of all worlds. And right now with the inversion, and I don't know where rates are going, but that inversion likely means that even if we do have a recession, that yield curve is going to pivot and that long term rates not going to change. 

So there's no need to wait. I think that inversion is going to come out. So I think it's an arbitrage opportunity that that ten year rate is 20 basis points cheaper than that five year, three year rate. so I think it's something to take advantage of. The ARC program is spectacular for that and not for every customer, just for those customers that can handle the long term fixed rate interest rate risk that want to lock things in now. And for that bank that, wants that floating rate, which is most banks, instead of guessing and speculating where rates going, they should just be managing their deposits on the short term side and, their assets.

Jack Hubbard: It's a phenomenal product. It really is.

just a couple more questions. One has to do with legislation because we as bankers are beholden to Congress in so many ways and a lot of people, well, we're deregulated, but we're a very regulated industry. What are some forms of legislation that are on the docket that community banks ought to be thinking about as we move toward the middle and end of 2024?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, we got some doozies coming, along. I think banks have done a good job at commenting and so we've seen some extensions. But, you know, on the docker right now, is a debit, interchange fee reduction. And so that, you know, I think, it is incumbent upon every bank to weigh in positively or negatively as they see fit. but I think, you know, if you take the lead of the ABA or ICBA, I think those are great organizations to be part of, to help with the lobbying effort and to understand their analysis of that. the NSF fees, overdraft loans, there's two legislative pieces of legislation that I think is going to drastically affect some of the fees and products that banks get. open banking standards are another one. 

We've seen a series of legislation changes, that banks are now having to collect more bits of information. And some of these have the right intent and we need to weigh in on the execution. Some of these, I think, are misguided in their intent, and we need education there. And then some of these, I think, are just going to be natural for banks to adapt, that they're going to have to figure out it's the right thing to do. Congress is trying to do the right thing. They got execution about right, and it's the bank that really has to adapt. It's one of those three buckets. And so I think every bank should have that on their radar screen at some level, even if it's working with the ICBA or IBA in particular, to influence change. But we've seen banks weigh in on a common period, and we've seen that comment period extended. And so I think the Congress, in particular, kind of taking another look at that and making sure they get it right.

Jack Hubbard: It's gonna be an interesting year. You have 15,000 followers, and there's every reason why, based on all that, you do. But you're very well read. We've had dinner, and you read books with words and titles that I don't even understand. and so you're a very well read person. Who are you following, Chris, in banking, to help you sharpen your saw? Chris?

Chris Nichols: Yeah, it's a great question. I have long been on, obviously, as a lifelong learner, long been on a program that I have, that I challenge myself to take two big initiatives a year and to learn about that. AI, for example, this year is trying to get better at understanding AI. So I follow both people on the technical side of AI, but also on the ethics regulation, risk of that. I try to pick out who's talking and who's actually delivering fresh content insight. And there's a lot of people that regurgitate content. You know, you're obviously one that I follow on the sales marketing side. 

You know, I look to you to make sure that I keep abreast of best practices. And so because of you, you know, we have a reading program, you mentioned, our correspondent division. We have a book club, basically within our division that we read a book challenge, each other. We just had our first, you know, book report of the year, a couple days ago with Ed Kaufman kicking us off on a book that you suggested that we read, that he read and presented back. We talked about how to implement it. many of the authors, your newest one, guy Kawasaki, I'm reading right now, trying to study up. I'll take that back to our book club and teach that. but whether it's the alloway labs team, which puts out some great content, across the board, on the innovation side, great people out there and just try to follow a portfolio of people, and I add or delete people all the time. So once a year, usually every December, when things slow down, during the holidays, after Christmas, I go through and start deleting people and adding people and start asking people like you, like, who should I be following? Who do you like? And always manage? So I just did that. Wow.

Jack Hubbard: And I got to tell you that when I'm on a call with a banker, and I'm not on as many calls as I used to be, but when I'm on a call with a banker, one of the questions I always ask, and they kind of look at me like, with a bad beer face. I'll say, well, who do you work with in the correspondent area? Because I am always trying to refer business to Chris Nichols and his.

Chris Nichols: You do a great job. Thank you.

Jack Hubbard: They are phenomenal. Chris, your newsletter, your podcast, yourself, how do people sign up for the newsletter? How do they get a hold of you?

Chris Nichols: Any search, we'll take you to our newsletter. Any topic, or if you just search, SouthState correspondent bank, you'll come to our website. You can sign up. It's free. Always take input. So I get a lot of bankers that say, hey, what about this topic? What about that topic? And it kicks me off on many new areas of learning for myself. so that's one. and on that you can get the newsletter. And as you mentioned, Caleb has a fantastic podcast that we work on together. But he's really the driver that goes out. 

We're always looking for banks that are doing it right, that we can kind of highlight similar to yourself. And then, you know, you can follow me on LinkedIn as well. That's a great, social, platform for myself, that I try to, you know, put content out there and find out what people are doing, and not just in banking, but all, you know, I get a lot of my ideas from following the latest of what's happening at Amazon or the latest what's happening in various fintechs or various technology companies, et cetera. 

Watching some of that real closely. And so when we look at what's happening with not only large language models in AI, but also large action models now being able to string different bot agents together in an intelligent fashion, I think that's kind of a new future of banking 510 years away. I think I'm starting to try to come up to speed on things like quantum computing. I'm just a rookie at that, just trying to learn about how quantum computing will affect banking and payments in particular. So I always have these areas that I'm just learning and trying to look for best practices would, love other feedback on that and love groups to talk about that with banking is better.

Jack Hubbard: Because you're in it. Chris Nichols, thank you so much for your time today.

Chris Nichols: Thank you very much. Great to talk to you, Jack.

Jack Hubbard: Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack Rants with Modern Bankers with my friend Chris Nichols. Want to be more authentic when you use social media? Well, you can be if you check out my interview with next week's guest, Corey Perelman. Corey's newest book, authentically social, is a must read, and we cover lots of ground on that subject next week on Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. This and every Jack Rants with modern Bankers is brought to you by our good friends at RelPro and Vertical IQ. Did you know this is a podcast, too? Well, it is, and we're on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, iHeartRadio and others. And if you listen to it, we'd appreciate a review as well. Visit our website, too, themodernbanker.com for more information. And don't forget, sign up for our free public library at themodernbanker.com./publiclibrary. And remember, make today and every day a great client day.