Season 2, Episode 37: Julie Hansen

00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:25.710
Jack Hubbard: So, as I mentioned in the in the intro. I don't get terribly nervous about interviewing anyone, but I do with Julie Hansen because I got to look at the light I got to look at the green light all the time, and I got to make sure I'm making eye contact with it, because Julie is the expert in virtual selling. Julie Hanson. Great to see you again.

2
00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:35.199
Julie Hansen: Oh, it's great to see you, Jack, too, and and please don't worry. I'm not. I'm not judging you. During this conversation. It's a judge, free zone.

3
00:00:35.720 --> 00:00:56.580
Jack Hubbard: Well, you. You've had a just a great career as an actor, professional actor, and then you made a transition into your own well-respected training and consulting company. Let's start there. Talk about your your acting career a little bit, and the transition into your training company.

4
00:00:57.080 --> 00:01:24.130
Julie Hansen: Sure. Sure. Well, before I was an actor, I actually started in sales. So, and I really did sales and some sales management leadership roles while I was acting for many of those years, those formative years. So yeah, it was interesting, as I learned more about acting and learned a lot of the techniques and the internal.

5
00:01:24.130 --> 00:01:31.919
Julie Hansen: Oh, I guess the internal messaging that you give yourself and the the way we try to connect with others, and

6
00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:39.749
Julie Hansen: you know, express ourselves as best we can in certain different circumstances.

7
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:57.109
Julie Hansen: I realized that I was applying a lot of these things I learned as an actor to sales, and then, when I was a manager, I was applying them a lot to my coaching, and so it was very natural to segue into. Do I want another sales leadership role? Or do I want to

8
00:01:57.110 --> 00:02:11.359
Julie Hansen: really focused on helping others learn the techniques that helped me so much in being confident and being able to express myself at my best in a variety of circumstances.

9
00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:32.850
Jack Hubbard: Great. What are you seeing out there now, Julie, this is so interesting. The economy is a bit challenged. What are you seeing out there. What are small businesses telling you about where they are, and their level of confidence in moving forward here in this economy.

10
00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:43.360
Julie Hansen: Well, they're you know. They're they're doing the things that they think are going to move business forward. And and those are mostly customer facing

11
00:02:43.380 --> 00:03:13.340
Julie Hansen: opportunities. Right? I mean, you don't want to let go on that you can perhaps let go a little bit on the marketing and some other, you know internal changes you want to make, but making sure that your sales team is out there and presenting the image and the message that you want them to and staying in touch with people. And that means a lot of virtual for well, for most companies, because either a their clients are remote or

12
00:03:13.420 --> 00:03:20.750
Julie Hansen: they don't you know, as far as the economy and the ways they can cut back is not having people travel to

13
00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:40.170
Julie Hansen: those initial meetings at least right when it's just a prospective call, and when it's a prospective call it's even more important that you nail that right. If you don't get that right, you don't get to go out there and meet them in person. So so it's really it's a critical piece of most businesses.

14
00:03:40.466 --> 00:03:52.899
Julie Hansen: You know. Strategy is to make sure that their their salespeople are showing up, and at their very best, and not, you know, hampered in any way by things that they aren't even aware that they are doing to sabotage a meeting.

15
00:03:54.490 --> 00:04:21.799
Jack Hubbard: Well, one thing that you've done in your business is, you've made a bit of a transition, and you know you you wrote this amazing book. Look me in the eye where we're going to talk quite a lot about it today. You also have kind of migrated and are doing more. I'll call it evaluation and helping people. One thing you do is something called rate my video, which is absolutely fabulous. Talk about that, how that all got started, and what that's all about.

16
00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:47.940
Julie Hansen: Sure. Sure. Well, I realized early on that most people are so unaware of what virtual presence is. They kind of know what they see it. They know, and they don't, but they don't know why, and it's very hard to analyze yourself, certainly, and even to understand why certain people stand out to you and why they don't. You can maybe pick out a few behaviors.

17
00:04:48.070 --> 00:04:52.720
Julie Hansen: And I also realized that as I was training teams

18
00:04:52.890 --> 00:05:20.239
Julie Hansen: that we needed a way to measure what was actually the changes that were being made. So what does what does credibility look like? What does confidence look like? What does engagement look like. And so I created a virtual assessment that measures all those so we can see like where people start and where they end up. And it's it's pretty dramatic. And

19
00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:26.019
Julie Hansen: so the the rate, my video, which is a series that I do just to help people understand

20
00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:43.589
Julie Hansen: what virtual executive presence is, what I focus on there, because executive presence is, I think, what I mean, not just for leaders, because I think, as salespeople, we also need to show up as credible and confident and empathetic, and all the qualities you associate with executive presence on camera. And it's very difficult

21
00:05:43.900 --> 00:06:10.820
Julie Hansen: we'll talk more about that. But so rate, my video, I analyze a leader or CEO in real time. I just take their video. And I break down. Okay, here's what they're doing that makes you feel confident in them that makes you trust them. Here's what they're doing that, maybe, you know, plants a seed of doubt in your mind, or, you know, gives you gives you pause, and how that detracts from their executive presence.

22
00:06:10.940 --> 00:06:24.089
Julie Hansen: And it's really helped. People just see like, Oh, okay, you know, all those things matter, you know, because it's easy to say, oh, it doesn't matter if I look at the camera. It doesn't matter if my setup isn't perfect.

23
00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:36.750
Julie Hansen: you know a lot of things add up to. Yes, it does matter, especially when you are meeting someone for the 1st time, and they're not necessarily going to give you the benefit of the doubt in a lot of areas.

24
00:06:37.720 --> 00:07:00.489
Jack Hubbard: Well, that's very true. And as you mentioned, we're going to talk quite a lot about some of those behaviors today. But I want to go back to 2021, you know. It seems like it's just 4 years ago, but it's 4 years ago, and so much has happened since then back in 2021, you published your 1st book. Look me in the eye, bestseller, phenomenal book, and I think it was incredible.

25
00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:06.050
Jack Hubbard: incredibly timely. I'm curious what your inspiration was to write it.

26
00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:29.499
Julie Hansen: Well, it was very much based on my acting career, and I taught my 1st part of my training. Business is really focused on those customer face to face interactions. We didn't have much virtual at the time, and presentations and demonstrations and those kinds of things meetings.

27
00:07:29.640 --> 00:07:44.410
Julie Hansen: And when the pandemic struck. And I saw all these companies just telling their people to. Okay, get a camera, get on, Zoom, and just go. Just do what you did and just do it on camera.

28
00:07:44.740 --> 00:08:06.810
Julie Hansen: And I thought, Oh, this is a disaster. Why are we not helping these people? Because there are actually techniques that actors use to be their best self on camera to be as effective. And without those we're just, you know, we're just stumbling and fumbling in the dark, and we come across much different than we do in person.

29
00:08:06.810 --> 00:08:21.650
Julie Hansen: And so I wrote the book, really translating, okay, these are some techniques from acting on. You know how to connect with people through the camera, how to how to make them feel like you are talking just to them. And they're sitting right across from you.

30
00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:37.290
Julie Hansen: because that is something we just fast track. We just skipped over in our rush to get virtual. And there's still most people don't pay attention to that. And it's really, you know, a shame. But it's also a real difference maker, for people who do.

31
00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:59.150
Jack Hubbard: Yeah. And I'm curious. I want to ask you about the about the article you wrote recently in Top Sales Magazine, which is great article. But I'll forget this question if I don't ask. I'm curious in your work with folks, with executives and and with other people. I'm curious if there's an age group

32
00:08:59.250 --> 00:09:13.650
Jack Hubbard: where you say this group here seems to be more comfortable on screen versus this age group. Is there any demographic group that does better on screen than others?

33
00:09:14.270 --> 00:09:29.149
Julie Hansen: Well, sure, I think the younger are more comfortable on camera, but comfortable on camera is very different than being good on camera. And so that's a whole different set of problems right? Being too comfortable.

34
00:09:29.150 --> 00:09:50.160
Julie Hansen: Listen, that's that's a big problem. Because most people, you know, our energy. Really, you know, the camera takes away a big chunk of energy, anyway, and most people are seated. So you're in low energy position, and your audience is not giving you any energy. And so it just becomes this, you know, low energy. You know, it's it's terrible. So

35
00:09:50.160 --> 00:10:02.090
Julie Hansen: so yeah, some people are more comfortable in certainly in younger age groups. But we don't want to mistake that for being competent on it.

36
00:10:02.090 --> 00:10:13.630
Jack Hubbard: Boy, that's a great distinction, comfortable versus competent. And you talked about. And I want to get to this article in a second. But you made such a valid point here

37
00:10:13.800 --> 00:10:16.159
Jack Hubbard: that people that are seated

38
00:10:16.290 --> 00:10:36.760
Jack Hubbard: sometimes get a little more comfortable. I'm curious if if you've seen people make any transition at all from being seated when they're doing a call versus standing and making a call, and if so, have you seen any benefit to standing when they make a call.

39
00:10:37.750 --> 00:11:00.650
Julie Hansen: Yes and no. So so typically, yes, and I have a you know. It's in a chapter in my book about standing versus sitting and the different things that you need to remember when you're standing, you typically have better energy, right? But it also introduces several problems which is, most people are not good at standing evenly balanced and still

40
00:11:00.650 --> 00:11:16.449
Julie Hansen: for a length of time that a virtual meeting takes. And so we find this sort of, you know, distracting little repetitive pattern of either this way or they, or they take a step towards the camera, and then they realize there's nowhere else to go. They take a step back. So it's this deadly two-step

41
00:11:16.550 --> 00:11:43.870
Julie Hansen: very distracting. So to do that you really have to understand that. You know you have to learn to keep your body still and have that all that energy come out of your you know your voice, your face, your your upper body, so as not to look like you're nervous, or, you know, didn't bust into a dance at any moment. So yes, it can be better for some people, but there are considerations to take in mind.

42
00:11:44.420 --> 00:12:08.850
Jack Hubbard: One thing I learned from you is to avoid the chair dance, which is the back and forth, even if you're in a chair, and you know you don't even realize you're doing it, Julie, until you actually see it. And one of the things that that I don't think we do very well on these calls is record them. And we're going to talk about that because I think that gives you a tremendous self coaching benefit as well as for your coach.

43
00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:15.020
Jack Hubbard: But let's let's go back to the top sales. Article. Greatest enemies of sales potential

44
00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:23.890
Jack Hubbard: was in the May edition of Top Sales Magazine. Talk about the article and and what you wrote there.

45
00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:41.039
Julie Hansen: Yeah. So I was approached to be the guest editor of that issue which I was really honored to do, because there's some great, you know, great peers in there as well, all about coaching. And I thought, Well, what can I? How can I frame this? And I thought, you know, really, there's

46
00:12:41.040 --> 00:12:56.460
Julie Hansen: there's all kinds of different techniques of coaching and different ways to approach it, and for different situations. But but overall, if you look at it, there's, you know, there's some obstacles that if we don't address, all the coaching in the world isn't going to change.

47
00:12:56.660 --> 00:13:08.000
Julie Hansen: and you know, just a couple of those is, you know, Brian Tracy has a great quote. He says, you know fear and doubt are the greatest, you know sabotagers of success.

48
00:13:08.300 --> 00:13:20.389
Julie Hansen: and when salespeople are, or leaders, for that matter, are fearful, or they're doubtful of what's going to happen. And you know there's a lot of fear and doubt right now, and if we bring that into

49
00:13:20.400 --> 00:13:37.180
Julie Hansen: every call, or or you know every interaction, we're not gonna certainly be at our best. We're going to, you know, if we're afraid of making virtual call, you know, calls, we're not going to do it as much, or we're going to hold back. And so.

50
00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:53.139
Julie Hansen: addressing, that is very important. The other one that I think is really relevant. Is this what my friend Colleen Stanley, who I think you've had on emotional intelligence expert, calls the knowing and the doing gap.

51
00:13:53.400 --> 00:14:04.779
Julie Hansen: So when I meet people and I work with them, it's not the 1st time they've heard. Look at the camera right. It's not, you know they've heard it.

52
00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:17.780
Julie Hansen: but if that were enough they'd all be doing it right, because it's not easy. There's a strategy around, and if you don't know that you're kind of bumbling around like well, I guess I'll look now, or you know.

53
00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:21.450
Julie Hansen: and there's a practice involved in it.

54
00:14:21.690 --> 00:14:26.689
Julie Hansen: and an understanding of when and why to do it that is required.

55
00:14:26.790 --> 00:14:34.870
Julie Hansen: And so you may know that. But you're not going to do it. If you don't have. You know that kind of, you know, support.

56
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:54.149
Julie Hansen: And so there's a lot of like, oh, I know I should make more calls. Oh, I know I should do something about this virtual setup. But if nobody sits down and tells you, here's where you know you need to. You know where this needs to be improved. And that's 1 great thing about the assessment is, people can see.

57
00:14:54.240 --> 00:15:05.079
Julie Hansen: Oh, this is what I need to do. This is what I need to change, because because most people just say, Oh, I know I'm not my. I'm not doing that great on camera. I know I'm not at my best.

58
00:15:05.290 --> 00:15:24.740
Julie Hansen: and they can't really identify. Why, it's just. I don't like the way I look. I don't like the way I sound, which are sort of red flags that there's there's more going on than that, because you know how how people perceive you is much different than how we perceive ourselves. So we have to. We have to kind of work through that first.st

59
00:15:26.140 --> 00:15:46.250
Jack Hubbard: Well, it was great to see Julie in Top Sales Magazine, and for those of you that don't get the magazine, it's free, and there is. There are untold numbers of amazing consultants, like Julie, who write in this magazine every single month. It's wonderful. But speaking of writing, this is one of my favorite books, and.

60
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:47.010
Julie Hansen: Look at that.

61
00:15:47.010 --> 00:15:55.490
Jack Hubbard: Oh, this is some. This is just an unbelievable book. And we're gonna dive into this a little bit today. But here's a question.

62
00:15:55.720 --> 00:16:09.009
Jack Hubbard: So banks, some large banks, and some other banks. Many banks are calling people back to the office. Come on back to the office a certain number of days or full time, and that's all great.

63
00:16:09.380 --> 00:16:29.080
Jack Hubbard: I'm curious, though, I hear bankers say, well, virtual selling. We don't need to be doing that anymore. What are you seeing Julie with virtual selling? And why should a banker be adept at something like this? I mean, we're healthy again. We're all back to the office. Why do I need to be worried about this stuff.

64
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:38.799
Julie Hansen: Right? Right? Well, we're not all back to the office, for one thing, there's certainly you know, your company may be back to the office, but doesn't mean all your clients are.

65
00:16:39.020 --> 00:17:03.429
Julie Hansen: and it's likely that they're not going to be open to as many in person meetings as they would virtual. So even if it's just to, you know, to maintain that connection. Virtual is a great tool for that. It's much easier for people to agree to like, you know. Hey? You got 15Â min on Thursday. I got, you know, something you know, new. I wanted to run by you. I think you'd be interested in.

66
00:17:03.610 --> 00:17:23.279
Julie Hansen: as opposed to, you know, taking a big chunk of their in-person time, and that they don't necessarily have. There's also a lot of industries that are getting into it, you know. Renewed energy getting into it like manufacturing, for instance, is not, has been slow to get into it.

67
00:17:23.683 --> 00:17:34.410
Julie Hansen: But yeah, I work with a lot of banks and and lenders mortgage companies that you know, they just simply can't get face to face with their clients.

68
00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:49.910
Julie Hansen: And that's a really vital piece of maintaining that connection. So I think it's it's it's here for the foreseeable future. So I think it. It's something that we need to maintain. And we need to get. We need to be

69
00:17:50.300 --> 00:17:55.070
Julie Hansen: continuing to improve at because others are improving. And if you're not, you're getting left behind.

70
00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:15.730
Jack Hubbard: Yeah, no doubt about it. And and I think if we don't continue to sharpen our saw here, we're going to miss out because there are something's going to happen, and that something might be torrential rains, or it could be a bad snowstorm. I'll give you a couple of very specific examples of how this has worked. And it's recent.

71
00:18:15.970 --> 00:18:42.899
Jack Hubbard: I'm on the board of a community bank, and one of our folks wanted to get a doctor group together to talk to them about a possible relationship. The doctors are in all different communities, so they're not all located in one town. They were able to have an initial virtual call that went extremely well, that led to multiple presentations and a relationship

72
00:18:43.170 --> 00:19:07.099
Jack Hubbard: of a bank in New Jersey who had a branch manager who was looking to talk with someone, a major company about doing work with them. The Cfo. Had a summer home in Texas, and so the banker, using techniques that I teach them. And you've taught. They were able to have those a couple of calls in Texas and, in fact.

73
00:19:07.100 --> 00:19:16.159
Jack Hubbard: make a solutions presentation call using the whiteboard and sharing their screen, etc. Those are all powerful

74
00:19:16.280 --> 00:19:28.330
Jack Hubbard: things. So Julie's right. This isn't over. What's over, unfortunately, is the training that a lot of people may have gone through. And at the initial stage of this.

75
00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:44.960
Jack Hubbard: Well, let's dive into your book. One of the things you talk about is the missing chemical in relationships that you can kind of foster doing this virtual thing. Talk about that. It's fascinating.

76
00:19:45.490 --> 00:20:10.540
Julie Hansen: Yeah, I find it fascinating as well. It's something called oxytocin, which you may be. That may ring a bell. Some people call it the love hormone and what it is is. It's a hormone that's released in your body, based on some behaviors that have been identified by scientists in another person.

77
00:20:10.610 --> 00:20:32.659
Julie Hansen: So there's really 2 main ways that oxytocin gets released, and that is through physical touch, like a handshake. Right? Somebody putting their hand on your shoulder hug. What have you so clearly only possible in the physical world? Right? So we don't have that. Virtually.

78
00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:59.519
Julie Hansen: however, the second way is something we can really take advantage of, and that is, you can release oxytocin in another person by making direct eye contact, and that is completely in our wheelhouse right by looking at the camera. So those and that oxytocin, it's, you know, love hormone is a little dramatic, but what it does is it increases feelings of

79
00:20:59.590 --> 00:21:03.580
Julie Hansen: safety and trust and likability.

80
00:21:03.860 --> 00:21:14.470
Julie Hansen: which are certainly a great foundation to have a call on right, especially with someone new. So, so yeah, it's

81
00:21:14.620 --> 00:21:27.080
Julie Hansen: it's something that we need to be aware of, so that we don't have the disadvantage that we we thought we did. When we're virtual, we need to take advantage of all the things that we can.

82
00:21:28.070 --> 00:21:36.560
Jack Hubbard: And I always talk about in my speaking and in my training. If you looked, if you watch the news at night, even in a small market station.

83
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:56.510
Jack Hubbard: If your newscaster continued to look down at their notes and not look at the camera through the through the lens of the camera, you'd say, gee! You need to go back to school and learn a little bit. So there is a lot to learn, and one of the things you talk about in the book

84
00:21:56.600 --> 00:22:12.810
Jack Hubbard: is that there are 5 missing qualities on video. Now don't give us all of them, because I want people to buy this book. It's it's absolutely phenomenal. But give us a couple of the missing qualities we should be thinking about on video.

85
00:22:13.080 --> 00:22:32.409
Julie Hansen: Sure. Sure. So there's really there's 5 qualities. And I won't go into all either that really need to be present for a relationship even to develop right. And the couple that I have been focusing on recently are, 1st of all, empathy.

86
00:22:32.510 --> 00:23:00.819
Julie Hansen: Right? If if we don't feel that someone cares on some level about us. As a person we're not likely to enter into relationship, business or personal, with that person, right? And unfortunately, on camera, most people look like they couldn't care less because we have what on camera a common face of common expression which I call resting business face.

87
00:23:01.990 --> 00:23:08.950
Julie Hansen: And it's very blank. It's a poker face. It doesn't get off an ounce of emotion. I could be pouring my heart out to you, and this is what I see.

88
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:20.759
Julie Hansen: you know. And it's you know you. You've probably seen it on tons of virtual meetings. And it's just it's it's not necessarily reflective of how you feel.

89
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:33.119
Julie Hansen: We are. We are relatively new to this virtual environment as far as it being a 2 way conversation. And so our training of being in front of screens is to be like in receiving mode.

90
00:23:33.530 --> 00:23:59.520
Julie Hansen: And we're in our comfy chair, and we're listening, and our just our body language, or, you know, just everything just lowers, and when your energy is down, the 1st thing to go is your facial expressions. So if we don't perceive that you're empathetic, that's a real problem. So we have to. Most people have to work at that. We don't naturally look as empathetic or seem as empathetic as we do.

91
00:23:59.550 --> 00:24:06.779
Julie Hansen: The other thing is active listening like, if you didn't feel like somebody heard you or was listening.

92
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:15.229
Julie Hansen: you know you wouldn't be in a relationship with them. And of course, the signs that we've been

93
00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:32.029
Julie Hansen: trained since birth to recognize as someone is listening and paying attention is eye contact. Right? If you're looking at me, you're listening to me. Otherwise it's like, you know, if you're out to dinner with someone and they're on their phone and you're talking to them. And it's like, Hey.

94
00:24:32.270 --> 00:24:54.489
Julie Hansen: it's the same thing on video, you may say, well, I'm not on my phone. And they know I'm looking at my screen. It's like it's, you know, it's not a logical thing. Relationships are based on emotion, not logic. You can't train someone to think like this. Behavior isn't what you think it is when we that's been instilled in us since birth. So good luck trying to break that

95
00:24:54.863 --> 00:25:03.670
Julie Hansen: we have to adapt to it right? And so it's very counterintuitive to look at the camera when the other person is talking, but it makes them feel heard.

96
00:25:04.050 --> 00:25:12.490
Julie Hansen: And you know, that's just that's those are some really important things to, you know again, support that relationship.

97
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:25.089
Jack Hubbard: Talking to Julie Hanson today about look me in the eye, and and you made a really good point there. You want eye contact, and what a lot of people don't realize is

98
00:25:25.330 --> 00:25:37.460
Jack Hubbard: I'm looking at the camera, which, in fact, I'm giving you eye contact. If I try to look at you, I'm actually looking away from the camera. And it takes away from the way I look on camera.

99
00:25:37.570 --> 00:25:59.500
Jack Hubbard: And I also think that we're in this environment. As we talked about. I call it Bec blended environment conversations. We're going to have some conversations in person, a lot of them, but 82%. In a recent survey of business owners said they wanted at least one call from a banker, virtually.

100
00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:00.190
Julie Hansen: Hmm.

101
00:26:00.190 --> 00:26:22.979
Jack Hubbard: We're not doing very well with what I call the the technical expertise of being on camera, and that is lighting and sound and background. Talk about what you're seeing. I mean, you do you rate your videos, talk about what you're seeing from some executives and what's missing around that, and maybe even including dress, Julie.

102
00:26:23.510 --> 00:26:29.960
Julie Hansen: Right? Right? Well, I'll tell you. It is remarkable that there is still such a gap in

103
00:26:29.970 --> 00:26:47.980
Julie Hansen: just this tech. Just the setup right how we show up. And it's so. It's such a shame because there's so many things you can't control in a business situation. But you can control how you show up. And it's all about controlling the controllables and

104
00:26:47.980 --> 00:27:01.120
Julie Hansen: everything that is in this space. This is your virtual stage right? And so everything in that is your choice. It all reflects on you whether you meant it to be there or not, is going to reflect on you.

105
00:27:01.430 --> 00:27:27.030
Julie Hansen: and so it it's behooves you to take some time to get that right. I just worked with a company, and I renovated their whole. You know their internal offices, and then I recorded them in person at the office, and then also in their remote offices, and a totally different experience they were, you know, the setups were kind of cockeyed, and they were framed improperly and couldn't see them.

106
00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:33.560
Julie Hansen: You know it. It has to be that consistent experience. So it's

107
00:27:33.790 --> 00:27:37.079
Julie Hansen: it's interesting what people think they can get by with.

108
00:27:37.350 --> 00:28:04.579
Julie Hansen: And I think we need to, you know, get rid of that belief that oh, this is good enough. It's probably okay. No, you have to have good lighting. I mean, it's, you know, good lighting, good framing. Those are probably the biggest things that I see that people don't pay enough attention to is, you know, making sure that you know the whole reason. You're a camera so that we can see you so we can see your eyes.

109
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:15.210
Julie Hansen: How you frame yourself really sets the tone. If you're you know, too, in our face, it's a little off-putting, if you're, you know, kind of a floating head. That's

110
00:28:15.260 --> 00:28:32.460
Julie Hansen: also off-putting doesn't allow you to to, you know gesture. If you're too low, it also, it subtly reflects that you're a lower status, right? You're kind of looking up at people. If your camera's not framed right or looking down.

111
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:57.009
Julie Hansen: So a lot of factors go into that. And yeah, it's really it's still a problem. And again, I think we just so quickly got people, you know, virtual, that they didn't really have good advice or expertise helping them in this area, or take enough time to to do it. And people have gotten frankly a little lazy.

112
00:28:57.010 --> 00:29:07.209
Julie Hansen: you know, like, Oh, it's fine, it said. But you know. Well, you know. Yeah, for your friends and family. But if you're doing business, it's you know you still got to step up.

113
00:29:08.780 --> 00:29:34.750
Jack Hubbard: So funny. I sometimes on Youtube, I'll watch and and you'll see people still today. Their kids will walk in or their cat will walk in, and there's to your point. You can't control it. But what you can control is your lighting, your background, your eye, contact, etc. I'll tell you a quick story. When we were doing the remote learning that we did at St. Myron, Hubbard. One of the things I talked about was a zoom room.

114
00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:50.420
Jack Hubbard: and a couple of banks actually took me up on it. And so what they do they have. They'll have a room in an office where, if you're gonna do a zoom call. That's where you go. There's good lighting. There's good audio, etc. And the other thing they did which was fascinating

115
00:29:50.420 --> 00:30:01.600
Jack Hubbard: is if you're calling on a manufacturing company they'll have 2 different on big placards, quotes from manufacturing companies right behind them, framing them.

116
00:30:02.140 --> 00:30:03.670
Jack Hubbard: calling a doctor.

117
00:30:03.670 --> 00:30:24.110
Jack Hubbard: They'll take the Manufacturing company signs down and put up the medical signs from veterinarians or pediatricians, or whatever the case might be, that creates a level of customization, and doctors are going to look at your background manufacturing. Cfos are going to look and say, Oh, look! They may never even comment, but they'll see that they'll see that.

118
00:30:24.110 --> 00:30:24.530
Julie Hansen: And.

119
00:30:24.530 --> 00:30:26.020
Jack Hubbard: Background, so.

120
00:30:26.020 --> 00:30:37.529
Julie Hansen: Yeah, it all sets the stage right. It's that 1st impression. Those 1st impressions are critical. They're proven to inform people's final decisions. So it behooves us to

121
00:30:37.690 --> 00:30:41.550
Julie Hansen: give the best 1st impression we can absolutely.

122
00:30:41.550 --> 00:30:57.989
Jack Hubbard: And you talked about coaching early on with your company, and one of the things I'd love to get your opinion on is cause I have all kinds of different opinions in banking, should we? Should we not? What about recording the call, Julie? What are what are you seeing? And why should it be recorded, or why shouldn't it be recorded.

123
00:30:58.230 --> 00:31:04.599
Julie Hansen: Well, I see, you know across the board is, you know it. It really depends on

124
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:22.969
Julie Hansen: if someone's gonna watch it right. You know. Sometimes people have the best intention. They just have a bunch of recordings sitting there that they don't do anything with. Other times, you know you have to. You have to get approval from the client, obviously the customer to to record that, and that sometimes is tricky in certain industries.

125
00:31:23.290 --> 00:31:49.229
Julie Hansen: But I think it's a great practice. It's what you do with it. That makes the difference right? And again, what I find is most people watching themselves is very difficult. It's painful, even as an actor. I didn't like watching myself on TV and be like, what is? You know? It's very hard to be objective.

126
00:31:49.520 --> 00:31:59.269
Julie Hansen: And so when I work with companies. Typically, I do the assessment, because then it takes the onus off them and they're they're

127
00:31:59.350 --> 00:32:24.610
Julie Hansen: they're busy looking at themselves like, Oh, what's going on with my hair? And why do I? What's that? You know, movement? I do. You know things that don't necessarily matter to your customer, and so I keep very focused on these are the behaviors you're you're doing, or the way you're showing up that impact your credibility or are lowering your engagement, or it makes it look like you're not listening.

128
00:32:25.070 --> 00:32:31.779
Julie Hansen: And so it really keeps them on track. And it's not personal, because I think it's very vulnerable to be

129
00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:47.720
Julie Hansen: assessed, and to be to watch yourself on video or to have a manager watch it. I think I think that's a i don't see that working. So I think either. This the the team has to do it themselves, and

130
00:32:47.890 --> 00:33:03.680
Julie Hansen: what I like to do is I have a evaluation form that I have them walk through. So it really keeps them on track. So they're not going down that rabbit hole of oh, God, I look terrible! And blah blah, you know it's like, did I do this? Did I do that? What do I need to work on now.

131
00:33:04.100 --> 00:33:11.070
Julie Hansen: or I like? I said, I do it, and then we work together on correcting those behaviors. So that's

132
00:33:11.250 --> 00:33:16.100
Julie Hansen: that's sort of the the choices that I think are most effective.

133
00:33:17.040 --> 00:33:25.509
Jack Hubbard: But and you're right. Having you do. It is great having me do. It is is fine if I have a checklist.

134
00:33:25.890 --> 00:33:50.660
Jack Hubbard: but but my coach is such an important and vital part of my career. If we could just get coaches to dive into this a little bit more, just forget about their fears of their own insecurities, and say, Look, I'm going to help my banker get better at this, and certainly, with the permission of the potential buyer. You can record these calls

135
00:33:51.170 --> 00:33:58.160
Jack Hubbard: again within bank policy, and one of the things I've always suggested to Manager, because here's what they say.

136
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:26.330
Jack Hubbard: Well, jeez, you were on with Julie Manufacturing Company, Jack, for an hour. I don't have an hour to watch the video and then coach you, but you don't have to, because if a manager knows my weaknesses, let's say that I'm not great at asking questions. Well, I can fast forward that right into the questions, and let's say, that takes 12Â min. My manager has time to take 12Â min to help improve my skills.

137
00:34:26.909 --> 00:34:30.259
Jack Hubbard: Just I just wish that they would do better at that, Julie.

138
00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:48.649
Julie Hansen: Right right? And there's lots of tools that can pull out insights from a recording for you, depending on what you're looking at. I happen to, you know, just, you know, focus on that virtual executive presence, those qualities which keeps it very focused.

139
00:34:48.650 --> 00:35:07.859
Julie Hansen: And for another coach to do that, what happens is sure they can. They can look at that and go. Oh, it looks like you need to look at the camera more well again. They're not going to be able to tell you how to do that right? So it's sort of that, you know. How do we change behavior? But as far as being a vehicle to have somebody.

140
00:35:08.220 --> 00:35:18.290
Julie Hansen: you know. Take the time to look through it and see where the you know where the problems are is. I think you know it's is the point of recording it right.

141
00:35:18.450 --> 00:35:19.269
Jack Hubbard: No doubt.

142
00:35:19.570 --> 00:35:30.979
Jack Hubbard: Well, okay. So we've been talking a lot about eye contact. But I have a question as a salesperson. So I'm I'm interviewing you where you're on a business development call with me.

143
00:35:31.140 --> 00:35:36.519
Jack Hubbard: You suggest that I shouldn't look down a lot at my questions.

144
00:35:36.850 --> 00:35:39.739
Jack Hubbard: What suggestions might you have then.

145
00:35:39.930 --> 00:35:48.819
Jack Hubbard: if if I I don't want to look down. But I want I want to keep my questions. I don't have to worry about writing notes, because if I record this

146
00:35:49.520 --> 00:35:50.800
Jack Hubbard: I need here.

147
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:51.880
Julie Hansen: Yeah, that's been valuable.

148
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:59.700
Jack Hubbard: Suggestions do you have about maybe helping me with questions so that I don't lose eye contact with my buyer?

149
00:35:59.890 --> 00:36:20.420
Julie Hansen: Sure. Sure. Well, you know, there's a it's it's not all or nothing. It's like we don't have to just constantly be looking at the camera. And obviously, if you're presenting, you're demonstrating, you're interviewing, you've got to look at something right. You're not going to memorize all that. And I'm not the world's best memorizer. So believe me, I understand.

150
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:34.850
Julie Hansen: But there's a way to do it, that is, you know, keeps your connection with your audience. If you know there's certain things about looking away that break that connection. So if I'm constantly like.

151
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.279
Julie Hansen: you know, darting eyes.

152
00:36:38.700 --> 00:36:53.760
Julie Hansen: that's, you know, that sends a whole different message. We don't associate that with anything positive, so we don't want to. We don't want to have the darting eye syndrome, but most people, what they do is, they get the question and they look at it. Okay, I want to ask him.

153
00:36:53.950 --> 00:36:58.570
Julie Hansen: So so, Jack, what's the biggest challenge you're facing today?

154
00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:15.699
Julie Hansen: And they ask the question to their notes. Right? And so it's it's a technique that actors use when they're working with a script, is they get the question in their head. They say it to the camera, and they hold it there right? And so it's a it's a.

155
00:37:15.820 --> 00:37:31.219
Julie Hansen: It's a script reading technique that I train people on to get information and return to the camera, because what happens is, people don't remember to turn return to the camera. And so they got their head stuck down for the next 10Â min. And that's the problem.

156
00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:46.900
Julie Hansen: You also want to place your notes obviously, somewhere where it's not like we have to constantly look at the top of your head elevated. So just look a little bit down, or they're on your screen. So there's lots of tricks, so that it's not necessary to.

157
00:37:47.010 --> 00:37:51.540
Julie Hansen: you know. Be head down for lengths of time. Necessarily.

158
00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:55.260
Jack Hubbard: Very true, and as as a great salesperson.

159
00:37:55.370 --> 00:38:04.520
Jack Hubbard: you also don't need full sentences to ask a particular question. So if you had a couple of words that would prompt you.

160
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:05.210
Julie Hansen: Right.

161
00:38:05.210 --> 00:38:29.820
Jack Hubbard: That would be really helpful as well. My friend Mike Mcintyre, who's down the chief banking officer at City National Bank in Florida. We kind of worked together and taught a concept called turkey feathering, which is putting notes around the computer screen. Just one or 2 words where you're gonna ask questions, making sure that you don't cover the green dot, and it's like a

162
00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:42.630
Jack Hubbard: feathers on a turkey, and and that way you can. You can have prompts, etc, etc. I mean everybody. You you look at Saturday night live, or Johnny Carson, or any any they have cue cards.

163
00:38:42.630 --> 00:39:02.630
Julie Hansen: You go behind the scenes. Yeah, there's there's all kinds of tricks, and you know it depends on your setup right? And what works for you. So you know, try some things out and just find something that is easy for you to access. Doesn't isn't a huge, you know. You don't have to turn your head to look at the other screen necessarily.

164
00:39:02.630 --> 00:39:12.949
Julie Hansen: But sometimes you know, that happens with presenters, or you know, they've got a lot of content. And it's just how we manage that and keep bringing it back to the audience is what's important.

165
00:39:13.510 --> 00:39:37.669
Jack Hubbard: I was on a call this morning with the bank president. I'm going to do an interview with him, and I said, Are you a morning or afternoon person, and he said, Well, I'm kind of a late morning person. Well, I'm an early morning person, but I'm interviewing him, so I want to go at his convenience. Here's my point. All throughout the day you may be doing several of these virtual calls.

166
00:39:37.700 --> 00:40:00.460
Jack Hubbard: If you're a morning person, you're up and rolling along, and your eye contact is good, etc, etc, etc. But what about? Late in the afternoon, Julie? I've done 3 or 4 of these, and it's late in the afternoon, and I'm getting tired. Give me some tips on how to still look fresh for that 5th call of the day as much as I am for the 1st call of the day.

167
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:29.609
Julie Hansen: Right? Right? Well, 1st of all, to your point of like, you know, you're having to look at the camera and the wear and tear of that. If you have spent the time invested the time to learn how to do this properly, you've developed that muscle memory. So it's not really any harder than looking at your screen at that point. So that's not necessarily the challenge that I hear you saying. I think it's more like our eyes get tired, just even if you're looking at the screen all day, they get tired right?

168
00:40:29.610 --> 00:40:34.790
Julie Hansen: The artificial light and everything else. So you know, I think the

169
00:40:34.910 --> 00:41:03.879
Julie Hansen: the biggest, you know. Problems that affect our eyes are that light, you know. If you've got good lighting, it's gonna be bright, you know. And so it's if you can, between calls like, turn that light down, turn the light on your screen down a little bit. Remember that the light on your screen is a source of light, so you may need it for the next call, but you know, use the brightness on that, and you know I just keep some natural eye drops handy. And

170
00:41:03.970 --> 00:41:15.019
Julie Hansen: yeah, and just get, you know, get some, get some dark darker surroundings and a little little hydration in the eyes, and you can usually keep going.

171
00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:18.220
Jack Hubbard: Well, eye contact is great.

172
00:41:18.350 --> 00:41:34.370
Jack Hubbard: What happens if they don't make eye contact, and I don't mean not looking away from the screen. I mean not turning their camera on. How do you connect with people, Julie, with all the things that you wrote in your book? How do you connect with them if they don't turn their screen on.

173
00:41:35.080 --> 00:41:48.370
Julie Hansen: Well, Jack, that is as close to acting as most people are ever going to get. That is what an actor does. They talk to a camera, and there's no one else there, and they are having a real conversation, and they're listening.

174
00:41:48.400 --> 00:42:04.919
Julie Hansen: It's absolutely possible. And so in the book I have a chapter on the whole technique of like how to talk to people. Because if you're recording video, obviously, it's the same idea, right? You're talking to them. You're having a conversation. It's just. The other person's part is silent.

175
00:42:04.950 --> 00:42:29.369
Julie Hansen: So we have to, you know, and to maintain that conversational tone and feel is really difficult for most people. I mean, actors train to get, you know, develop that quality because we don't see them. And we feel like we're talking to a black hole, are they there? And we're very tentative. And we're checking in a million times. Does that make sense? Does that make sense?

176
00:42:29.450 --> 00:42:34.789
Julie Hansen: Or we're just monologuing because we're afraid to stop, because nobody answers fast enough.

177
00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:45.599
Julie Hansen: I know I know it goes. You know, it's gone on in my head. And so it's really a series of techniques to use to 1st of all.

178
00:42:45.740 --> 00:42:55.200
Julie Hansen: act as if they're there, because they are there right? And and so act just as if you're having a conversation

179
00:42:55.380 --> 00:43:17.219
Julie Hansen: right, and that they are nodding. If you say something interesting or they're smiling. If you say something funny, most salespeople and leaders to go to like the worst possible scenario like, oh, they hate this. They don't like this, and all that does is make you uncomfortable, and it brings out the worst in you. So I would say, imagine the best possible reaction

180
00:43:17.730 --> 00:43:23.239
Julie Hansen: right that they they are happy to hear from you, and they're thinking about what you said.

181
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:47.049
Julie Hansen: And we have to understand also how to manage those pauses longer which which we're not good at. Even when we do see people on camera, we typically jump in and answer our own questions too quickly. But it's really apparent when other people are off camera, we do that. And so we don't get a conversation going because we can't. We can't bear to let something sit there for longer than 3 seconds.

182
00:43:49.350 --> 00:43:54.450
Jack Hubbard: Well, you've been. You've been so kind with your time, but I got to tell you in this book

183
00:43:55.550 --> 00:43:57.910
Jack Hubbard: one sentence stood out.

184
00:43:58.430 --> 00:44:03.130
Jack Hubbard: They can't buy from you if they don't remember you.

185
00:44:03.500 --> 00:44:08.169
Jack Hubbard: How do I become memorable when I'm doing virtual calls? Julie.

186
00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:16.216
Julie Hansen: Well, I will tell you that. You know we've talked a lot about, you know, virtual presence and what's not being done and what needs to be done.

187
00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:25.799
Julie Hansen: There is such a huge gap between people that show up present and engaged and actively listening

188
00:44:26.020 --> 00:44:48.530
Julie Hansen: on camera and those that don't, that just doing those making those changes is a huge differentiator. I think it's 1 of the biggest differentiators we've had in sales, because there's a lot of areas that, you know you can make a little bit of a difference if you change some wording. And you, you know, tweak this tweak that it is dramatic. I just worked with a sales team, and

189
00:44:48.530 --> 00:45:05.100
Julie Hansen: and the rest of the company is like, who are these people like, you know? They're like superstars showing up on camera. It's like you're sitting across from them talking. And before it was just, you know, so hit or miss, and you know, just crazy, you know, differences

190
00:45:05.100 --> 00:45:16.169
Julie Hansen: and the assessment showing most people can improve on average about 70% in what they're doing on camera. So that is, you know, that is not insignificant.

191
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:21.250
Julie Hansen: So to be memorable. That's that's 1 of the biggest things you can do. And

192
00:45:21.370 --> 00:45:33.000
Julie Hansen: because part of it is that you're being your best self, and that is always going to make you more memorable than just being sort of a a washed out. You know virtual version of yourself.

193
00:45:35.050 --> 00:45:37.650
Jack Hubbard: So Julie talked about coaching

194
00:45:38.150 --> 00:45:59.720
Jack Hubbard: rate, my video. She even talked about helping bankers, helping bankers and others set up backgrounds and rooms and lighting and things like that. Julie is the real deal. If I'm someone, I'm seeing this video. And I say, gee, I really need some help from Julie. How do? How do we get a hold of you, Julie?

195
00:46:00.270 --> 00:46:15.949
Julie Hansen: Oh, gosh! That's easy and ask Jack. But you can reach out to me at Juliehansonlive is my website. And I've got lots of different programs and videos as you can imagine on there and blog posts.

196
00:46:16.160 --> 00:46:21.649
Julie Hansen: And just email me at Julie, at acting for sales.

197
00:46:22.040 --> 00:46:47.719
Julie Hansen: I'd be very happy to have a conversation with anyone about, you know. Just get, you know, a lot of people just aren't sure how their team is doing. It's like, well, I think they could be better, but I don't know, and I help people figure that out. Maybe they're fine. I don't know, but I will tell you, and it's better to not be in the dark about how customers perceive you today. So yes, please reach out happy to be that objective eye for you.

198
00:46:48.940 --> 00:47:08.919
Jack Hubbard: Julie. Virtual sales is not going away, and Julie Hanson is right in the middle of this phenomenon. Her book look me in the eye is fantastic. It's something you ought to read, and you should reach out to Julie if you need some help. Julie. Thanks so much for your time today I really appreciate it.

199
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:11.139
Julie Hansen: Thank you. Always a pleasure to see you, Jack.

200
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:16.520
Jack Hubbard: Okay. Very good.

201
00:47:16.520 --> 00:47:17.250
Julie Hansen: All right.

202
00:47:17.250 --> 00:47:18.580
Jack Hubbard: Was that okay for you?

203
00:47:18.740 --> 00:47:21.790
Julie Hansen: Oh, that was great! You're such a good interviewer.

204
00:47:21.790 --> 00:47:23.970
Jack Hubbard: Well, thank you so much, you know.

205
00:47:23.970 --> 00:47:26.959
Julie Hansen: And you've gotten even better since our last time, and you're good.

206
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:36.390
Jack Hubbard: I. You know, people tell me that. And it's just that's a it's a skill, certainly, that I was taught in in radio TV.

207
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:37.150
Julie Hansen: Yeah.

208
00:47:37.150 --> 00:47:46.189
Jack Hubbard: Here's the other thing that's fascinating to me. You know I reread your book, and people send me these books all the time, and they say

209
00:47:46.570 --> 00:47:52.880
Jack Hubbard: you really read my book. I said, Well, you sent it to me. Why wouldn't I read it to you? And they well, a lot of people don't.

210
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:57.179
Julie Hansen: It's yeah, they don't. They're too busy, they're whatever. Well.

211
00:47:57.180 --> 00:47:57.910
Jack Hubbard: Read the damn.

212
00:47:57.910 --> 00:48:05.830
Julie Hansen: And it's why your interviews are, you know, have meat to them. They're very thoughtful and and helpful.

213
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.259
Jack Hubbard: No, I get great guests like you, too. It really does.

214
00:48:08.260 --> 00:48:08.830
Julie Hansen: Huh!

215
00:48:09.180 --> 00:48:15.979
Jack Hubbard: So this is going to be on just so that, you know. Hang on second June 4th

216
00:48:16.516 --> 00:48:25.660
Jack Hubbard: and you'll get something from our team ahead of time. So you can do any marketing you want. You can have the video, whatever you want.

217
00:48:25.660 --> 00:48:26.440
Julie Hansen: Okay. Wonderful.

218
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:42.980
Jack Hubbard: That's completely fine. And, as I always say, if there's somebody that you know that you is writing a book, or has something to say, or you know, etc. Please don't hesitate to reach out and let me know who they are.

219
00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:49.029
Julie Hansen: Alright, yeah, great. I know a couple of people that are so. I'll keep keep them in the loop.

220
00:48:49.030 --> 00:48:49.370
Jack Hubbard: We'll say.

221
00:48:50.130 --> 00:48:54.599
Jack Hubbard: appreciate it all the business to you, best to you and your business, and thanks again for being on.

222
00:48:54.600 --> 00:48:58.430
Julie Hansen: Thanks you too great summer, jealous.